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Old 07-26-2015, 02:22 PM
 
372 posts, read 589,009 times
Reputation: 340

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Quote:
Originally Posted by teacherdad View Post
Add the price for gas...I found some places at 2.19 per gallon while driving from the westside to Solon this week. At home, we are paying about 4.49 per gallon. Over a year, that is a staggering difference.

Went to an open house yesterday at 399k. Taxes are more per year than the one I bought in CA for 785k. It was way more home than I need at 4888 sq. ft. If you get what you need (most people) around 2000 sq. ft., you can find places in the 270k range and taxes on that are not too bad in comparison.

I'm going to some today in CLE Heights, RRiver and Lakewood. Should be fun!
I live in Rocky River and my family and I just got home from spending 2 hours swimming at our private neighborhood beach. It was a pretty wavy day and we all had a blast riding the waves. I'm interested to hear your perspective on houses here versus the one you saw yesterday.
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Old 07-26-2015, 05:47 PM
 
4,361 posts, read 7,134,974 times
Reputation: 4866
Gotta love these drive-by threads. Fact: You get way more for your money in NEO than you would virtually anywhere on the coasts. The general cost of living is much lower. The property taxes are lower. The state, sales, and local taxes are middle of the road. Just because a $800k home you would pay $300k for here has a little lower tax rate, it doesn't mean the taxes on the $300k home are "high." It means you're paying way too much for the $800k version.
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Old 06-09-2020, 10:27 AM
 
1 posts, read 761 times
Reputation: 10
Default Ohio blues

My taxes went up over 80%, dollar for dollar when I moved here from Indianapolis. “Great schools” are not THAT great. Wasteful, multi level government. Guess it hasn’t changed in over 5 years. Sucks. Could have stayed in Indy and moved to a place with a HOA and at least had a pool!
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Old 06-09-2020, 12:34 PM
 
113 posts, read 105,361 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batjake16 View Post
My taxes went up over 80%, dollar for dollar when I moved here from Indianapolis. “Great schools” are not THAT great. Wasteful, multi level government. Guess it hasn’t changed in over 5 years. Sucks. Could have stayed in Indy and moved to a place with a HOA and at least had a pool!
I'm feeling the pain, and we are yet to move to the area for my wife's job. Seems systemic from years of no opposition, voter apathay, one party rule, "just how it is" etc.

I've lived in several places and the return on my money paid to property taxes appears to be the worst of anywhere I have seen. Part of the problem is politicians, unions, etc that see tax money as "theirs" and entitlement mentality. The narrative needs to be switched to "your" money and demanding an attractive ROI. Flip the script from asking for permission from the gov't and dealing with their policies and procedures to every public employee understanding that they serve and work for others. Gov't jobs are like a country club and that needs to change.

I see layers of bureacracy, public pensions that should be stopped where they are today, pay out what has been promised or a settlement and phase out and transition to private 401Ks. Not my job (or anyone elses) to pay for their retirements. Save your own money for your own retirement.

Shaker has rediculous wasteful line items in picking up trash cans from behind a house (totally unnecessary). God forbid we ask residents to put cans out on the parkway like 99% of America does. Oh the horror of seeing "unsightly" cans. While we are at it, we can privatize trash pickup and have real roller carts and real single stream recycling instead of 5 gallon buckets. What a concept.

I was president of our HOA and I systematically cut expenses and increased service by simply cutting the fat and firing those loafing on leaders asleep at the wheel in the past. Everyone loved the lower assessments and better service. And it was done sustainably and responsibly. I just may run for office!

Time to clean house and do some right sizing. Maybe I can get Geraldo to endorse, I'm sure he would like to shave tens of thousands off his tax bill!

Last edited by cubsguy81; 06-09-2020 at 12:47 PM..
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Old 06-09-2020, 12:51 PM
 
113 posts, read 105,361 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
Gotta love these drive-by threads. Fact: You get way more for your money in NEO than you would virtually anywhere on the coasts. The general cost of living is much lower. The property taxes are lower. The state, sales, and local taxes are middle of the road. Just because a $800k home you would pay $300k for here has a little lower tax rate, it doesn't mean the taxes on the $300k home are "high." It means you're paying way too much for the $800k version.
Here's my perspective coming to the area, on just a sampling of differences that come to mind.

$420K home here in SC presently. Modern home close to everything. $1,300 property tax bill - ANNUALLY. No local income tax. Top schools. Put anything out on the street (and I do mean anything) and the city hauls it away, as part of your taxes, WEEKLY. Large recycling cart. Put everything in single stream and they take it away. Stack up cardboard to your hearts desire too. Few regulations or permits required for things. City maintains sidewalks.

$420K home in Shaker Heights. 1960s home with some issues. Over $10K property tax bill. Over 2% income tax with no credits. Decent, but not outstanding schools. Take large items to the dump yourself, recycling program that resembles 1990 with tiny buckets that spill all over the place. Regulations and permits for everything. City tells you fix sidewalk and you say "yes sir, right away sir". You want to sell your house? Get permission and pay a shakedown fee for a point of sale inspection from a department open from 8-4:30 with an hour lunch break on their schedule, just like the 1950s. Put the money you need to actually fix things in to an escrow account you can't touch and need permission to use. Effectively pay double for the repairs and hope you get reimbursed with your money the town is holding ransom and if the town doesn't like it, they steal your escrow. For the greater good of course.

Last edited by cubsguy81; 06-09-2020 at 01:03 PM..
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
378 posts, read 337,027 times
Reputation: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubsguy81 View Post
Here's my perspective coming to the area, on just a sampling of differences that come to mind.

$420K home here in SC presently. Modern home close to everything. $1,300 property tax bill - ANNUALLY. No local income tax. Top schools. Put anything out on the street (and I do mean anything) and the city hauls it away, as part of your taxes, WEEKLY. Large recycling cart. Put everything in single stream and they take it away. Stack up cardboard to your hearts desire too. Few regulations or permits required for things. City maintains sidewalks.

$420K home in Shaker Heights. 1960s home with some issues. Over $10K property tax bill. Over 2% income tax with no credits. Decent, but not outstanding schools. Take large items to the dump yourself, recycling program that resembles 1990 with tiny buckets that spill all over the place. Regulations and permits for everything. City tells you fix sidewalk and you say "yes sir, right away sir". You want to sell your house? Get permission and pay a shakedown fee for a point of sale inspection from a department open from 8-4:30 with an hour lunch break on their schedule, just like the 1950s. Put the money you need to actually fix things in to an escrow account you can't touch and need permission to use. Effectively pay double for the repairs and hope you get reimbursed with your money the town is holding ransom and if the town doesn't like it, they steal your escrow. For the greater good of course.
Most modern suburbs keep taxes and costs of living low via income from constant expansion/sprawl development. The newer infrastructure means they currently have less overhead. It isn't a sustainable long-term model because, one day, development will stall and the maintenance bill will be due for all of the roads and utilities. Cue tax hikes and subsequent cuts to services. StrongTowns writes pretty extensively on the American model of suburban expansion: https://www.strongtowns.org/the-grow...%20liabilities.

Shaker definitely has some weird restrictions (the point of sale stuff still confuses me) but there's something to be said knowing that the city's basic system functions reliably.
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Old 06-09-2020, 03:07 PM
 
113 posts, read 105,361 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by j_ws View Post
Most modern suburbs keep taxes and costs of living low via income from constant expansion/sprawl development. The newer infrastructure means they currently have less overhead. It isn't a sustainable long-term model because, one day, development will stall and the maintenance bill will be due for all of the roads and utilities. Cue tax hikes and subsequent cuts to services. StrongTowns writes pretty extensively on the American model of suburban expansion: https://www.strongtowns.org/the-grow...%20liabilities.

Shaker definitely has some weird restrictions (the point of sale stuff still confuses me) but there's something to be said knowing that the city's basic system functions reliably.
Shaker is certainly stable. I grew up a comparable suburb outside of Chicago that offers top notch services and schools for substantially less tax dollars. That is saying something coming from Illinois. Without even having looked at the books in Shaker or even have lived there yet I can smell the inefficiencies and bloat just asking to be cut.

Yes, SC has expansion fees, but we also have low expenses and spend below our means - at least in the town we are coming from. They are saving and investing the windfalls and planning for when that revenue stream ends.
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Old 06-12-2020, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Shaker Heights, OH
5,255 posts, read 5,177,381 times
Reputation: 4259
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubsguy81 View Post
I'm feeling the pain, and we are yet to move to the area for my wife's job. Seems systemic from years of no opposition, voter apathay, one party rule, "just how it is" etc.

I've lived in several places and the return on my money paid to property taxes appears to be the worst of anywhere I have seen. Part of the problem is politicians, unions, etc that see tax money as "theirs" and entitlement mentality. The narrative needs to be switched to "your" money and demanding an attractive ROI. Flip the script from asking for permission from the gov't and dealing with their policies and procedures to every public employee understanding that they serve and work for others. Gov't jobs are like a country club and that needs to change.

I see layers of bureacracy, public pensions that should be stopped where they are today, pay out what has been promised or a settlement and phase out and transition to private 401Ks. Not my job (or anyone elses) to pay for their retirements. Save your own money for your own retirement.

Shaker has rediculous wasteful line items in picking up trash cans from behind a house (totally unnecessary). God forbid we ask residents to put cans out on the parkway like 99% of America does. Oh the horror of seeing "unsightly" cans. While we are at it, we can privatize trash pickup and have real roller carts and real single stream recycling instead of 5 gallon buckets. What a concept.

I was president of our HOA and I systematically cut expenses and increased service by simply cutting the fat and firing those loafing on leaders asleep at the wheel in the past. Everyone loved the lower assessments and better service. And it was done sustainably and responsibly. I just may run for office!

Time to clean house and do some right sizing. Maybe I can get Geraldo to endorse, I'm sure he would like to shave tens of thousands off his tax bill!
I live in Shaker and love not having to take my trash down to the street.
I do wish the roads would get fixed up but winters here do a lot of damage to them.
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Old 06-15-2020, 08:51 AM
 
6,595 posts, read 8,907,835 times
Reputation: 4673
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioaninsc View Post
I live in Shaker and love not having to take my trash down to the street.
Same! I really don't get the complaints about that. If you want normal trash service, there's 10,000 other towns in the country to live in that have it.

I'll admit I thought the recycling buckets were stupid at first, but now I love them. I don't need some giant container taking up space in my kitchen. Rotating buckets works a lot better for us.

There's also just a lot of intangible value you get from the taxes. When we moved in we called the city to request the recycling buckets -- they were dropped off at our door that same afternoon. We had a document we were waiting on from city hall hand delivered to our house. When I need to get in touch with the city, they are both easy to get in touch with and responsive to my concerns.

I'm sure there's some line items in the budget that people see as wasteful, for example the city has a forestry department and employs an arborist. The great tree cover in Shaker is a huge asset and this is worth it to me, but that's not something everyone is willing to pay for.

Shaker is one of the few cities in the metro to have a full time law director on staff. Yes, this cost more, but it also means you can get legal issues with the city sorted out quickly and easily.

I absolutely understand that not everyone sees the value in these sorts of things, and that's fine -- but nobody is forced to live here either.

My only significant complaint is the lack of bulk trash pickup. But on the other hand, I see a lot more people giving and receiving free furniture and play sets and things that would wind up in landfills if they could be hauled away for free each week. Weekly yard debris pick up helps make up for that, too. I've lived in places that only do that twice a year.
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Old 06-19-2020, 01:28 PM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
2,107 posts, read 5,052,888 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubsguy81 View Post
Here's my perspective coming to the area, on just a sampling of differences that come to mind.

$420K home here in SC presently. Modern home close to everything. $1,300 property tax bill - ANNUALLY. Truthfully, while property taxes can be a concern, I want to know what my mortgage and escrow payment is going to be. New housing is - in many cases - cheaper here (metros of Ohio) than SC, especially south of Charlotte, Charleston or Greenville/Spartanburg. I could have 5K in property taxes but a 500K home and my mortgage will still probably be cheaper in Ohio because despite the property tax bill shock, the same home is probably 250-300K. Unless you are paying cash - and congrats if you can - I think property tax comparisons are a little overblown. Relevant? Yes. But overblown? That too.

No local income tax. Yeah, Ohio craps it here, but at least townships don't levy - less you have a local school district income tax. With KY, you can be charged even in unincorporated areas as counties can levy income tax. Good news is it is more a payroll tax and only where you work, so no double dipping into your salary. And most jurisdictions have a relatively fair cap on the amount they can collect. But another downside is the property tax also extends to cars, boats, etc. So, Ohio having the ability to collect both residence and work-place with potential for little to no credit between locales, is a detriment to the State of Ohio and tax friendliness. Few places are probably more resident tax hardship than Ohio. I am thinking NYC, Chicago proper.

Top schools. This is subjective by state. I have a customer who moved from Charlotte area of NC to Revere Schools (outside Cleveland-Akron) and despite the high ranking of their NC schools, his kids were almost a grade level behind their new peers in Ohio. So, state-by-state comparison, I would highly doubt the best district in Alabama can compete quality wise with the best districts outside NYC or Boston. That could very well happen with SC to Shaker, who, despite having lower grades, is setup to push out dozens or more National Merit Scholar Finalist every year.

Put anything out on the street (and I do mean anything) and the city hauls it away, as part of your taxes, WEEKLY. Large recycling cart. Put everything in single stream and they take it away. Stack up cardboard to your hearts desire too. This is a benefit but most private haulers in cities and townships without municipal collection, have single stream, but with the five gallon bins. Also, those same private trash agencies (which you referenced up-thread), require notice for large and bulky items. Just an FYI.

Few regulations or permits required for things. City maintains sidewalks. Not sure when fewer regulations and permits is necessarily a good thing. Houston might grow gangbusters, but having industry or commercial potentially build right next to my residential SFH, you begin to appreciate the zoning and planning regulations many cities in Ohio - and other states - have. Cities maintain sidewalks where ever you go as they are almost always public right of way, so not sure what that point is referencing? Some Ohio cities - Oakwood, the Shaker equivalent in Dayton, even shovels/cleans the snow off the sidewalks. Now that is service!
But here is the thing, with all that said, I think the down-thread poster made a great point. Cities' and jurisdictions' age and other factors such as being built-out or landlocked cause higher property taxes. Shaker being a pure bedroom community also compounds that property tax burden. That alone, with everything else noted, can be good logic for the dollar figure you are paying.
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