Question Regarding RTA Trains (mattresses, live, airport)

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I've resigned myself to the fact that Cleveland's heavy rail ridership will always be among the nation's lowest although someday, perhaps, we may catch up to and overtake places like Baltimore or Miami, but we're still quite a ways from even that. Cleveland was robbed of a chance for the really robust ridership the system was built for when, in the late 1950s, the County's former engineer Albert S. Porter encouraged the County Commissioners to reject the subway portion of the Rapid which voters had already approved. Even though the Rapid was extended to the airport a decade later, the Porter-inspired subway cut is a debacle for which the entire rail system has never fully recovered. It's a shame.

Not building the subway in '50s really didn't really kill rail transit in Cleveland since until the 1980s, the Red Line had large ridership numbers.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by WRnative

There's also a heavy correlation between transit use and energy prices.

Low gasoline prices are muting transit demand, especially when combined with low parking prices compared to most large downtown districts in the U.S.

Most of my friends use RTA for leisure purposes.

The amount of job commuting into downtown has definitely decreased in recent decades, partially due to fewer jobs and partially due to many more living options downtown and in nearby neighborhoods. Of course, the latter should increase short-hop transit demand.

Low gasoline and natural gas prices also should by an ongoing windfall for RTA.

Low gasoline prices also keep people in or return them to their cars.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Minervah

One thing I would like to see happen if possible is the revamping of the concrete structures along the route of the Redline. The first time I rode it from The Cedar/University Station to Ohio City I got a real shock. The infrastructure looked like it was crumbling right before my eyes.

Of course the graffiti wasn't exactly pretty but it was typical of big city neighborhoods. I was used to seeing that when I rode the Chicago subways and Elevated trains. But to see cement pillars all chipped and worn was kind of scary.

I saw a news story that the city council was a bit concerned that visitors coming in for the RNC this summer would be seeing all this and maybe things should be "spruced up" a bit.

Ya think?

The concrete structures supporting bridges or walkways on the west side have been replaced the past several years. There may still be some but I noticed how much of these scary concrete support structures are no longer there. Maybe east side next? The Airport-Tower City segment really needs to be in good condition as this is what many people make of their 1st impression of Cleveland.

The amount of garbage dumping and litter along the route can be a real issue.

[Urban Peasant]

Originally Posted by Kamms

The concrete structures supporting bridges or walkways on the west side have been replaced the past several years. There may still be some but I noticed how much of these scary concrete support structures are no longer there. Maybe east side next? The Airport-Tower City segment really needs to be in good condition as this is what many people make of their 1st impression of Cleveland.

The amount of garbage dumping and litter along the route can be a real issue.

I guess I'm too used to seeing these things on the East Coast. You ought to see some of the infrastructure in New York, Newark, and Philadelphia. Yet everyday tons and tons of vehicles traverse over those bridges and overpasses. You can have a bustling city but old obsolete infrastructure because the local government is either unable or unwilling to pay to replace it quickly.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

I guess I'm too used to seeing these things on the East Coast. You ought to see some of the infrastructure in New York, Newark, and Philadelphia. Yet everyday tons and tons of vehicles traverse over those bridges and overpasses. You can have a bustling city but old obsolete infrastructure because the local government is either unable or unwilling to pay to replace it quickly.

I live in Philly...but Cleveland has such a bad reputation that people point to the infrastructure to confirm the stereotypes. Cleveland though, like the cities you mention, has the same issues.

[Minervah]

Originally Posted by Kamms

The concrete structures supporting bridges or walkways on the west side have been replaced the past several years. There may still be some but I noticed how much of these scary concrete support structures are no longer there. Maybe east side next? The Airport-Tower City segment really needs to be in good condition as this is what many people make of their 1st impression of Cleveland.

The amount of garbage dumping and litter along the route can be a real issue.

That's good to know. About the infrastructure, not the garbage. Maybe they will get over to the East side eventually.

[dr_j_planning]

Originally Posted by TheProf

If I'm not mistaken, there are a few other HRT systems that have fewer track miles than RTA's Red Line.

RTA comes in at 19.1 miles (and 18 stations)

Baltimore's is about 15 miles (14 stations)

Staten Island's single line is about 14 miles IIRC.

Prof and others, I apologize for my clumsy writing. I actually do not know any statistics about Cleveland's heavy rail system (track miles, number of stations, etc.), nor do I know how Cleveland's heavy rail system ranks compared to other heavy rail systems in the United States based on these or other characteristics. I only know that its ridership is the lowest in the United States according to the American Public Transportation Association (APTA). My comment about system use efficiency was intended to give an example of how somebody might measure that efficiency by considering the size of the system along with ridership if they wanted to make a statement about whether Cleveland's system is "underused." Ridership numbers alone are not enough to state whether Cleveland's is the most "underused" system in the United States.

Happy New Year!

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by dr_j_planning

Prof and others, I apologize for my clumsy writing. I actually do not know any statistics about Cleveland's heavy rail system (track miles, number of stations, etc.), nor do I know how Cleveland's heavy rail system ranks compared to other heavy rail systems in the United States based on these or other characteristics. I only know that its ridership is the lowest in the United States according to the American Public Transportation Association (APTA). My comment about system use efficiency was intended to give an example of how somebody might measure that efficiency by considering the size of the system along with ridership if they wanted to make a statement about whether Cleveland's system is "underused." Ridership numbers alone are not enough to state whether Cleveland's is the most "underused" system in the United States.

Happy New Year!

No apologies needed, because the thrust of your post, about ridership stats is dead on. Cleveland does sadly rank at the bottom in this category, which is the most important. Hopefully, given the rider uptick and renewed interest in the Rapid, esp by Millennials, the Red Line may climb a notch or two out of the cellar.

[familyliu543]

Red train is heavy rail, green and blue line is light rail, both are not subways since both do not go underground.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by TheProf

No apologies needed, because the thrust of your post, about ridership stats is dead on. Cleveland does sadly rank at the bottom in this category, which is the most important. Hopefully, given the rider uptick and renewed interest in the Rapid, esp by Millennials, the Red Line may climb a notch or two out of the cellar.

I'm not certain overall ridership is that important. Cleveland likely has a lower population density along the Red Line than most systems. The Red Line likely offers a great rider experience compared to most heavy mass transit rail lines (e.g., seats available during rush hours).

As a rider, what I care about most is safety (including stations), quality of stations, seat availability, frequency and timeliness, and fares. There may be more significant issues about the stations for most Red Line rail riders, such as escalators or elevators being down for months.