Subway from airport to cleveland clinic (Euclid, Midway: to rent, condo, hotels)

[dr_j_planning]

Originally Posted by Kamms

The Blue and Green Lines have low ridership numbers despite the growth of the Flats East Bank. Remember, the WFL opened in 1996 for the Flats. The numbers were not great even in the heyday.

All those folks along the Blue/Green lines don't use the trains all that much. The Green Line has the lowest ridership for a light-rail system nationally.

Btw, it's not such a quick connection from Tower City to the HealthLine when one is carrying luggage from the airport.

Sorry, but Cleveland's rail lines are not all that convenient; another reason that ridership is low.

Kamms, would you please cite your source for the statement: "The Green Line has the lowest ridership for a light-rail system nationally?"

According to the American Public Transportation Association's (APTA's) 3Q 2015 Ridership Report, the most recent available, the lowest ridership during the first nine months of 2015 among all light rail systems in the United States was Tampa FL (216,600). Cleveland GCRTA Light Rail ridership during the first nine months of 2015 was 1,898,900. Other light rail systems with lower ridership than Cleveland during the same period are Seattle-King County WA (489,900) and Hampton Roads VA (1,104,400). Across the United States, total light rail ridership during this period was 365,369,200.

Cleveland GCRTA Light Rail Ridership decreased 7.2% from the first nine months of 2014 to the first nine months of 2015. Other light rail systems with greater ridership decreases than Cleveland during the same period are: Seattle-King County WA (-10.1%); Hampton Roads VA (-13.8%); and Baltimore MD (-14.4%). Across the United States, light rail ridership increased 0.2% during this period.

http://www.apta.com/resources/statis...rship-APTA.pdf

[WRnative]

Also, as Cleveland has both light and heavy rail rapids, comparing Cleveland light rail ridership with other cities with only light rail may be deceptive.

If Cleveland's ridership were adjusted for density in the areas served by the rail rapids, my hunch is that the adjusted rankings would be pretty good.

BTW, travelers with luggage also can use elevators to get from the Tower City rail rapid station to the Public Square level of Tower City and the Healthline bus rapid stop.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Btw, it's not such a quick connection from Tower City to the HealthLine when one is carrying luggage from the airport.

It's no worse than any other city (trains to and from EWR, JFK, LGA, MDW, ORD, etc. all present their challenges - LGA, by far, being the worst). Carrying luggage on a train commute is just a PITA any way you cut it.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

It's no worse than any other city (trains to and from EWR, JFK, LGA, MDW, ORD, etc. all present their challenges - LGA, by far, being the worst). Carrying luggage on a train commute is just a PITA any way you cut it.

True. In Boston, you have to transfer at least once to get where you're going. For me, who lives 4 miles from downtown, I take the bus from the airport to the red line subway, then take that a few stops to the green line, then take that a few more stop and get on a bus. Take that about 25 minutes to the stop by my house and then walk five minutes. This only thing that's cool is just getting home requires me to take BRT (mbta si,ver line from airport), heavy rail (red), light rail (green) and a normal bus. After taking a plane, so I really cover all my transit bases. When I fly to and from Cleveland, my time just traveling in Boston always surpasses the flight time in the air. Usually about 90 minutes.

[teacherdad]

It's how you see it, I guess. I walk onto the Red from at the airport. At Tower, I just walk or take the escalators to the main floor and out to Euclid- walk to hotel. Never once thought it was an ordeal. Seems convenient...no rental car, no shuttle to rental car, no walking outside airport and waiting for bus or shuttle with 100's of cars going by and fuming up the area, etc.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by TheProf

That's not true. The Waterfront line was well used on Friday and Saturday nights when the Flats was in its heyday right after the line was opened in 1996. I remember trains were very busy, esp around the clubs were closing during the summer -- and in those days, RTA ran the trains till 2:15/2:30 on summer weekend nights. When the Flats died, so did WL patronage. People got in the habit of not using it and have only trickled back with the new development on the East Bank (which is going to grow even bigger and stronger with Phase III which btw will cannibalize that big, fat surface lot in the middle of the development -- Egad! what will become of the poor, bedraggled driver who's allergic to public transit!?

Your luggage argument is old and weak. Carrying heavy luggage is a problem on any rail transit train, not just Cleveland's. Have you ever flown into O'Hare or Midway in Chicago? The Chicago L trains are considerably smaller than RTA Red Line cars primarily because, in the Loop, the L makes tight turns that longer cars can't negotiate. And they have no luggage racks at all. I've had light luggage on packed L cars and had to use the extra space on my seat for my small bag ... and got dirty looks for the 40-minute ride in from O'Hare. Oh, btw, once downtown the connections to other L lines and even to the main (Red) line in the Loop are terrible; in one case, you have to walk through a long underground tunnel to connect with Red Line trains north the Magnificent Mile area...Some transfers require riders to leave the station and walk on the street to another L line connection.

Also, you mention Philadelphia's new entrances under City Hall as a convenient new connection. What you fail to note is the long walk upstairs (there's no escalators up from the platforms) from the dingy, tight, awful Broad Street subway City Hall station. How is that better than RTA's Tower City? The HL connection from the temp-controlled, clean, beautiful Tower City station to Public Sq is a snap compared to Philly ... or most cities. ...

Why do Cleveland people act like the rapid is the worst system in the world, yet other people in other cities (including traveling Clevelanders) put up with the inconveniences of other cities and ride their rails? It's baffling. Ridership is often low on Cleveland's rapid because people are too ignorant, lazy or car-centric and spoiled to use the darn thing where as other cities would figuratively give their right arm to have what we've got.

Cleveland's rapid transit system is the worst in the world. Sorry, but busy Friday and Saturday nights on the WFL do not carry a rail line; busy all day and into the evening does.

The Chicago L has several stops and cities such as Chicago compel transit use. Traffic and congestion warrant a ride on the L whether from the airport or to get around. Chicago's L isn't as busy as even Washington's Metro but it gets the job done much better than Cleveland's system.

Clevelanders did use the transit system. That is until they all left for the suburbs or left the area entirely.

Love how you use Cleveland's disconnected transit system for passengers to marvel at Tower City interiors.

As the report stated today, Cleveland remains a top 10 least job competitive metro. Transit use will remain lackluster until this issue is addressed.

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Why do Cleveland people act like the rapid is the worst system in the world, yet other people in other cities (including traveling Clevelanders) put up with the inconveniences of other cities and ride their rails? It's baffling. Ridership is often low on Cleveland's rapid because people are too ignorant, lazy or car-centric and spoiled to use the darn thing where as other cities would figuratively give their right arm to have what we've got.

Because it's easier to drive in Cleveland than other cities. You answered your own question.

[Kamms]

I understand that there are many systems with transfers and some walking. Cleveland has only one (1) stop downtown and is a city geared for driving. No traffic, sprawl, etc. so just drive to your destination, except maybe a sports event.

So, if Cleveland's rapid transit system is no more inconvenient than all those much higher ridership systems, what's wrong in Cleveland? Perception? Convenience? Poor job growth?

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Also, as Cleveland has both light and heavy rail rapids, comparing Cleveland light rail ridership with other cities with only light rail may be deceptive.

If Cleveland's ridership were adjusted for density in the areas served by the rail rapids, my hunch is that the adjusted rankings would be pretty good.

BTW, travelers with luggage also can use elevators to get from the Tower City rail rapid station to the Public Square level of Tower City and the Healthline bus rapid stop.

Yep, there's no issue with the rapid transit systems in Cleveland. Ridership is back on its way up, nothing but blue skies as everyone is going to jump on the RTA at Brookpark for partying downtown.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Kamms

I understand that there are many systems with transfers and some walking. Cleveland has only one (1) stop downtown and is a city geared for driving. No traffic, sprawl, etc. so just drive to your destination, except maybe a sports event.

So, if Cleveland's rapid transit system is no more inconvenient than all those much higher ridership systems, what's wrong in Cleveland? Perception? Convenience? Poor job growth?

Cleveland uses free bus trolleys and the Healthline BRT to provide downtown transportation. It's actually a very convenient system.

Unfortunately, there's some discussion about discontinuing the free bus trolleys due to the absence of downtown business sponsorship.