Opportunity Corridor question (Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati: high crime, live in, move)

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

There is no comparison between TOD along a transit route and what amounts to a highway. They just don't promote development the same way, or the same type of development. Highways promote low-density sprawl- fast food outlets, strip malls, Wal-Marts and parking lots. The last thing that promotes strong urban development is more car traffic on a freeway.

You would know about highway sprawl with your Columbus credentials, I get that. The OC is not a highway.
Low density is better than the current no density. Do you have any idea what this area is like?

Cleveland's University Circle needs better vehicle access from the west and south, this is it. Besides, it's being built, argument over.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Nonsense. They all moved in for a reason. Do you think the entrepreneurs are stupid? You think the Cleveland museum of art is going to move to the suburbs? You think case will relocate?

I'm sorry that reality sounds like a fantasy.

Do you think this is a reference about the museums? Please. If UC and midtown want further growth, the OC is needed. Sorry that people drive and will continue to do so.''

I think the OC is the best option for this. Again, it's being built, nothing you can do about it now except if you're driving in from the south or west, you'll love the access into and out of the east side.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Kamms

You would know about highway sprawl with your Columbus credentials, I get that. The OC is not a highway.
Low density is better than the current no density. Do you have any idea what this area is like?

Cleveland's University Circle needs better vehicle access from the west and south, this is it. Besides, it's being built, argument over.

Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, and every other major city in America have examples where putting the car first and ease of travel for cars has destroyed the urban fabric. I get that the OC is not 71, but it functions much the same way- getting cars in and out as fast as possible without any possibility of helping to rebuild adjacent areas. Even ODOT is abandoning new highway construction.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Kamms

The Red Line (train) has been running through this area for over 60 years. Where's the TOD?

There has been virtually zero urban movement in most of the last 60 years until much more recently. TOD is a much more recent concept and it is more than just putting in a transit line and hoping something happens. The Red Line route has more potential for it than the OC though, without question. Your goal doesn't actually have anything to do with improving anything beyond shaving a few minutes off a commute, however.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by Kamms

What is your instant solution to resolve Cleveland's population and business decline, especially on the east side? You mention growth of the major institutions. Growth means more business, people, spending. Having easier car access to the west and south is vital.

You're asking me for a solution to a "problem" I refuse to concede exists. We need to accept the fact that Cleveland will never have close to a million residents and this is fine because rather than trying to revitalize every square mile of the city, we can target our limit resources to build on areas that are already showing signs of improvement.

Originally Posted by Kamms

As far as westsider bashing, no one wanted to be near UC until recently. Driving through and being surrounded by ghettos was not appealing. Now we're left with shell neighborhoods populated with high poverty rates, at least for those still living in these areas.

I'm sorry that you people just discovered the beauty and wonder that has existed in the University Circle neighborhood for several decades. For instance, The Cleveland Museum of Art, one of the finest museums in the country, has been celebrating its centennial anniversary.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Whatever. There were plans for a full-blown highway for decades into UC. The OC is the best version of this ''highway'' plan. Then again, you just need to keep your agenda about the OC by going with this type response.

Where's the TOD from the Red Line in lieu of the OC?

And thank goodness the Clark and Heights freeways were never built!

The OC is not the best of anything, it's just the most recent. But again, I'm glad you're at least no longer pretending that it's not a highway.

I never said anything about TOD or the Red Line.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Do you think this is a reference about the museums? Please. If UC and midtown want further growth, the OC is needed. Sorry that people drive and will continue to do so.''

I think the OC is the best option for this. Again, it's being built, nothing you can do about it now except if you're driving in from the south or west, you'll love the access into and out of the east side.

UC is booming and has been doing just fine without this "improved" access from other parts of town.

I guess we can agree on one thing, though, and that's that it is certainly a good thing to get this westsiders back to their side of town as quickly as possible!

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

UC is booming and has been doing just fine without this "improved" access from other parts of town.

I guess we can agree on one thing, though, and that's that it is certainly a good thing to get this westsiders back to their side of town as quickly as possible!

I love it. Get the west-siders back to the Chicago side of town while the East Siders stay on the New York side of town.

What happened on the East Side 50 years didn't happen on the West Side until it got stuck with all the East Side refugees.

UC will boom even more with access via the OC.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, and every other major city in America have examples where putting the car first and ease of travel for cars has destroyed the urban fabric. I get that the OC is not 71, but it functions much the same way- getting cars in and out as fast as possible without any possibility of helping to rebuild adjacent areas. Even ODOT is abandoning new highway construction.

The West Shoreway is a great example of what a ''corridor'' can do for an adjacent area. The only real difference with the OC is that there is no adjacent area left.

What do you suggest? Let me guess, lightrail.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Kamms

The West Shoreway is a great example of what a ''corridor'' can do for an adjacent area. The only real difference with the OC is that there is no adjacent area left.

What do you suggest? Let me guess, lightrail.

Can you be specific with examples of urban-style development that happened specifically because of it?


In terms of TOD, light rail does tend to have the greatest return of any form of transit, with BRT next.