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Different strokes for different folks maybe? I like lots of options, quality, comfort when traveling. Speculation?Comparable facts on how Hopkins ranks vs other medium size airports, did you read link that it ranks last? Cleveland Hopkins ranked as worst airport of its size in North America (again) | cleveland.com
Charlotte, water, umm, lake Norman (and to lesser degree Lake Wylie are highly rated bodies of water, it's why many celebrities and friends of mine have homes there and it's also nice to be able to boat 8 months a year. Check how much shoreline and real estate value is on LKN, wouldn't surprise me if it is more favorable than Lake Erie and you can swim in the water. Beautiful ocean beaches within a few hours. No where near the housing population near CLT AIRPORT vs. CLE. There's a reason 50k folks annually move to the area (Lots of Buyeyes too)
Nice digital stretch...next thing you'll note is the whole sunbelt will move north to grasp all the 'fresh' water of the Great Lakes, not in our lifetimes
Read carefully the airport rankings article that you linked. Hopkins was undergoing major renovations, which greatly inconvenienced travelers, during most of the 2016 survey period. It will be interesting to see how Hopkins' ratings improve in coming years following the renovations.
Only a deluded Cleveland basher would compare Lake Norman with Lake Erie, which is 200 times larger in just surface area.
That's why there are several yachting clubs with real yachts just within a short distance of downtown Cleveland. That's why there are sailing regattas in Cleveland. It's why Cleveland has hosted a Navy Week and tall ship celebrations and is an international port. It's why Great Lakes cruise ships make calls at Cleveland.
Greater Cleveland has large, natural sand beaches where persons do experience fresh water surf swimming, and I suspect you've never been out in Lake Erie 5 miles or more off Cleveland bobbing in the waves on a hot summer's night, you wouldn't compare Lake Erie to a relative pond like Lake Norman.
You wouldn't be surprised that the value of real estate along Lake Norman is greater than along Lake Erie in Greater Cleveland? I would. E.g., have you ever been to Bratenahl? How much do you think the Lakewood Gold Coast is worth, let alone the many mansions that stretch for miles along Lake Erie?
Consider that a group of Republican leaders now are pushing a carbon tax. Consider how this inevitability will impact conferences, let alone other business travel.
Location: livin' the good life on America's favorite island
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative
Read carefully the airport rankings article that you linked. Hopkins was undergoing major renovations, which greatly inconvenienced travelers, during most of the 2016 survey period. It will be interesting to see how Hopkins' ratings improve in coming years following the renovations.
Only a deluded Cleveland basher would compare Lake Norman with Lake Erie, which is 200 times larger in just surface area.
That's why there are several yachting clubs with real yachts just within a short distance of downtown Cleveland. That's why there are sailing regattas in Cleveland. It's why Cleveland has hosted a Navy Week and tall ship celebrations and is an international port. It's why Great Lakes cruise ships make calls at Cleveland.
Greater Cleveland has large, natural sand beaches where persons do experience fresh water surf swimming, and I suspect you've never been out in Lake Erie 5 miles or more off Cleveland bobbing in the waves on a hot summer's night, you wouldn't compare Lake Erie to a relative pond like Lake Norman.
You wouldn't be surprised that the value of real estate along Lake Norman is greater than along Lake Erie in Greater Cleveland? I would. E.g., have you ever been to Bratenahl? How much do you think the Lakewood Gold Coast is worth, let alone the many mansions that stretch for miles along Lake Erie?
Consider that a group of Republican leaders now are pushing a carbon tax. Consider how this inevitability will impact conferences, let alone other business travel.
Had to chuckle on your comment on Hopkins 'closing gap or surpassing CLT'. The two airports are in two different classes. If I remember correctly the upgrade at Hopkins is like $35M and CLT has been putting in $100Ms annually, spending $2.5BILLION through 2020, also keep in mind CLT is a relatively new airport. https://www.google.com/amp/s/charlot...?client=safari
Lake Norman shoreline is 520 miles, (doubt NEO shoreline is near that) so many million$ homes and a extremely active lake, some consider it a party lake. Many restaurants, bars you can pull your boat to. I lived in CLE many years, a small % folks have ever used the lake, seems more active for fishing. Those are not beaches on lake Erie in my book but people have different expectations. Headlands is all rocks, Fairport is better, Edgewater
Sounds like a pie in the sky comment on the carbon tax, effecting air travel. Almost like your continued harping about the Ohio Toll road...
Had to chuckle on your comment on Hopkins 'closing gap or surpassing CLT'. The two airports are in two different classes. If I remember correctly the upgrade at Hopkins is like $35M and CLT has been putting in $100Ms annually, spending $2.5BILLION through 2020, also keep in mind CLT is a relatively new airport.
They are in two different classes (large and medium airports), but the scoring methodology is the same. It's very possible for the user experience to be better at a medium-sized airport than a large airport.
Given the congestion and problems at the nation's largest airports, and despite the aggravations caused by Hopkins' 2016 improvement program, Hopkins ranked higher in satisfaction in the J.D. Power survey than LAX, Boston's Logan, O'Hare, Philadelphia, Newark and LaGuardia. So again, it won't be surprising to see Hopkins' satisfaction rating converge with or even surpass the satisfaction rating for Charlotte.
By further expanding, Charlotte's satisfaction score actually may drop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZnGuy
Lake Norman shoreline is 520 miles, (doubt NEO shoreline is near that) so many million$ homes and a extremely active lake, some consider it a party lake. Many restaurants, bars you can pull your boat to. I lived in CLE many years, a small % folks have ever used the lake, seems more active for fishing. Those are not beaches on lake Erie in my book but people have different expectations. Headlands is all rocks, Fairport is better, Edgewater
Lake Norman can't support long distance sailing or justify bigger pleasure ships. Again, it's not an international port, or any port of economic consequence. Considering boating, fishing, hiking, and beaches, I wouldn't be surprised that a much higher percentage of the population in Greater Cleveland uses Lake Erie than the percentage of Charlotte residents who use Lake Norman. Your argument is that Lake Norman is the preserve of the wealthy, but yet is widely used by the general population in Charlotte????? Given the size of Lake Erie, Greater Cleveland's general public has great access to public boat ramps.
Mentor Headlands is a large sand beach. It's not true that it's all rocks. Admittedly, the Kasich administration has gutted state park budgets and Mentor Headlands beach isn't groomed as frequently as it was in the past, but it's still not, nor ever has been "all rocks." That's just more of your bashing. For someone who claims to have lived in Cleveland, your ignorance is profound.
Sounds like a pie in the sky comment on the carbon tax, effecting air travel. Almost like your continued harping about the Ohio Toll road...
Econ. 101. Raise the price of something, you get less of it. There's a reason that the travel and lodging industry wants cheap fuel prices, the global environment be damned. The Republican carbon tax proposal is evidence that even many stalwarts of the science denying party know that the problem is urgent.
Again, with the Republican Toll Road, with ever escalating tolls, it's basic economics. Raise the price of tolls versus toll-free competitive corridors, such as I-70/I-65, you'll not only depress travel on the more expensive corridor, but also depress economic activity , such as manufacturing, reliant on that more expensive corridor.
Those who either don't understand or acknowledge economics unfortunately inflict the resulting harm onto others.
probably because it's not a hub or significant airport. Small footprint of major carriers, a lot of no thrills discount air lines (Spirit, Frontier, and probably names you never heard of)
This is the best answer to me. Even though Cleveland's image has improved significantly in recent years-- particularly last year, it's not yet a destination city. Also, the one aspect that helped Cleveland grow and become great, is also its hindrance in the same regard: there are so many major cities in close proximity to Cleveland it's a difficult selling point for an airline to make Cleveland it's hub. Cleveland did have Continental before it was eaten up by United and, then, the Cleveland hub was dropped (United was never really friendly toward Cleveland). But other cities in this region have suffered the same fate... U.S. Air, for around 2 decades, made Pittsburgh its hub and the airport greatly expanded, only to have the airline drop Pittsburgh's hub status before merging out of existence with American.
Hard to for Cleveland to be a hub, not only with so many other International airports nearby, as well as major destinations like Chicago and Detroit (the auto industry) within a couple hundred miles.
How is it the best answer when the entire premise of the thread is false? Flights out of Cleveland to major destinations are comparatively less expensive than many other cities.
How is it the best answer when the entire premise of the thread is false? Flights out of Cleveland to major destinations are comparatively less expensive than many other cities.
I'm just reflecting on the comment that Cleveland's not a major airport hub -- and the poster's correct about that, we're not... This shouldn't, or doesn't reflect on the quality of the City, obviously, because it's a great city. As I said, I think it's more about location ... plus, I'll add, the struggling/failing and consolidation of the so-called legacy carriers, like United, Delta, American, etc... And the rule of thumb is that the more popular an airport is -- and major hubs tend to be the most popular, cheaper the flights in-out of such airports...
Personal case in point -- I frequently fly from Cleveland to Philadelphia. Neither of the cities are major hub airports, although Philly is a secondary hub... this is likely because Philly is so close to nearby airports (which are major hubs) like Baltimore/Washington (BWI), Newark and the other NYC airports. So while it's foolish for me to drive to these nearby Philly airports for such a short flight (while total this may take just as much time as driving to Cleveland), I can, and have, flown cheaper from these other airports overseas, to Florida, California and the like...
What's ridiculous is that, in most cases, it's usually much more expensive to fly from Philly to Cleveland than it is from either of these 2 cities to Florida (and we're mainly talking Orlando or South Florida). Why? Because those Florida airports are major hubs -- many more people want to fly there; hence more traffic there, hence, cheaper flights.
Frontier (the always late discount carrier) instituted a dirt-cheap weekend route from Cleveland to Philly (I once had a $59 RT tic). But they dropped it. Even though these flights were packed, it apparently was a money-loser to Frontier, so they dumped it. Too bad for me and other Cleveland homers...
I'm just reflecting on the comment that Cleveland's not a major airport hub -- and the poster's correct about that, we're not... This shouldn't, or doesn't reflect on the quality of the City, obviously, because it's a great city. As I said, I think it's more about location ... plus, I'll add, the struggling/failing and consolidation of the so-called legacy carriers, like United, Delta, American, etc... And the rule of thumb is that the more popular an airport is -- and major hubs tend to be the most popular, cheaper the flights in-out of such airports...
Personal case in point -- I frequently fly from Cleveland to Philadelphia. Neither of the cities are major hub airports, although Philly is a secondary hub... this is likely because Philly is so close to nearby airports (which are major hubs) like Baltimore/Washington (BWI), Newark and the other NYC airports. So while it's foolish for me to drive to these nearby Philly airports for such a short flight (while total this may take just as much time as driving to Cleveland), I can, and have, flown cheaper from these other airports overseas, to Florida, California and the like...
What's ridiculous is that, in most cases, it's usually much more expensive to fly from Philly to Cleveland than it is from either of these 2 cities to Florida (and we're mainly talking Orlando or South Florida). Why? Because those Florida airports are major hubs -- many more people want to fly there; hence more traffic there, hence, cheaper flights.
Frontier (the always late discount carrier) instituted a dirt-cheap weekend route from Cleveland to Philly (I once had a $59 RT tic). But they dropped it. Even though these flights were packed, it apparently was a money-loser to Frontier, so they dumped it. Too bad for me and other Cleveland homers...
Technically PHL is a major hub for American Airlines, as EWR is a major hub for United, and BWI is a major hub for Southwest. PHL is a busier airport hub than BWI. The issue is American has largely a monopoly on CLE-PHL just as United has a monopoly on CLE-EWR (as the OP witnessed a hub captive fare). And for the matter, Southwest has it on CLE-BWI, although Southwest doesn't gouge as badly as American does between CLE-PHL and United between CLE-EWR, as CLE-DCA is a reasonable alternative to CLE-BWI.
In stark contrast, CLE-BOS has JetBlue, seasonal Spirit and United and the market is more competitive because of the multi carrier situation, with 2 being LCCs. Southwest will even discount CLE-BWI-BOS while selling CLE-BWI at a higher fare.
It's unfortunate Frontier ended the CLE-PHL route. It wasn't offered daily and service was lacking on popular travel days, and the service might not have been full every day. There are options, such as driving to Harrisburg (maybe one-way car rental) and take Amtrak to Philly, as it's a fixed $28 rate on decent frequency train service between Harrisburg and Philly, and you'd save atleast 2 hours of driving.
I've also seen sometimes American sell CLE-CLT-ABE for something like $141 while CLE-PHL is $400, so if one if flexible they can fly to Allentown which is not too far from the northwest suburbs of Philly. American views Allentown as a different market than PHL. Last time, I flew Delta on PHL-ATL-CLE as it was the cheapest, but still a little over $100 one-way, but I prefer flying American as I have most of my FF miles with American.
With frequent flier miles, it's just 7,500 American Airlines miles on Saver between PHL and many markets that are within 500 miles, including CLE and BUF, and availability is there for nonstops into PHL. But one has to book over 21 days to avoid a $75 award ticket processing fee. I prefer just taking the train and renting a car and driving, rather than using miles on a route under 500 miles.
Spirit flies PHL-DTW nonstop and offers some low fares, so that's another option if you're willing to go west, to ultimately fly back east. To game Spirit's system, it's best to buy at the airport where it's $17.99 less, and travel lightly with just a backpack and not care about seat selection. I can basically fly from Philly to Dallas for under $50 this way.
If you are flying on business, then it obviously makes most sense to just take the nonstop from American.
Visiting the Inlaws in Maine this summer while my daughter does a 2 week dance camp. Did not want to be in one spot for two weeks while she is at camp so looked at Bos-CLE flights.
You all know how I love and use Spirit from LAX to CLE so I looked...
July and Aug. From $100 rt from Bos-CLE. Looks like I can visit this summer!
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Price competition in Cleveland off the charts
