Where did all the white people go on the east side? (Cleveland: transfer, neighborhood)

[216facts]

Then there's this: Official Busing Ends in Cleveland - The New York Times
I remember a father commenting to me, "you want me to let them bus my child into a neighborhood that I wouldn't go?" Not sure how true this fear really was, but the court order damaged the city in my opinion. In 1970, Cleveland was around 700k in population, today it is around 380k.

I would say the top 3 reasons for white flight in Cleveland:
1. The natural desire of the American melting pot to spread out, get your own piece of the country, and segregate from those "ethnic neighbors" I do not necessarily infer African American "ethnic". However, I think racism against African Americans was the primary impetus for white flight.
2. Highway destruction of classic neighborhoods and the social safety net these neighborhoods gave to their community
3. In Cleveland, forced busing of schoolchildren via the court order.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by 216facts

Then there's this: Official Busing Ends in Cleveland - The New York Times
I remember a father commenting to me, "you want me to let them bus my child into a neighborhood that I wouldn't go?" Not sure how true this fear really was, but the court order damaged the city in my opinion. In 1970, Cleveland was around 700k in population, today it is around 380k.

I would say the top 3 reasons for white flight in Cleveland:
1. The natural desire of the American melting pot to spread out, get your own piece of the country, and segregate from those "ethnic neighbors" I do not necessarily infer African American "ethnic". However, I think racism against African Americans was the primary impetus for white flight.
2. Highway destruction of classic neighborhoods and the social safety net these neighborhoods gave to their community
3. In Cleveland, forced busing of schoolchildren via the court order.

I don't think your #1 has actual support. I've personally at least never seen anything to suggest that. People certainly had many incentives from the fed programs to leave.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by october2007

I'm talking about Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights mainly...I'm assuming the communities were originally built by and for whites (as were most places from that time period) and I think maybe they were originally heavily Jewish. The Tudor style of the buildings/houses is a style that would seem to point to a caucasian neighborhood (originally). Someone also told me that Shaker Square area used to be white but now it is mostly black...so just wondering why things shifted. Maybe as blacks moved in, whites left as sometimes happens? I guess I should do some reading on the history of the neighborhoods.

Shaker Hts. originally had restrictive covenants to prevent Jews and African Americans from purchasing homes.

<< The covenants in Shaker Heights and Forest Hill did not mention any specific racial group but required that a property could not be re-sold without the consent of the developer and/or the surrounding neighbors. This vagueness meant that any undesirable neighbor could be excluded – for his occupation or politics, for example. The context in which those covenants were created in Shaker Heights and Forest Hill, however, make it clear that the real targets, as elsewhere, were Jews and African Americans.>>

Deferring Dreams: Racial and Religious Covenants in Shaker Heights, Cleveland Heights and East Cleveland, 1925 to 1970 By Marian Morton – Teaching Cleveland Digital

Some of the most wealthy residents of the Heights area migrated to the estates of the far eastern suburbs, such as Hunting Valley, as cars and better highways eliminated the need for the use of mass transit for commutes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_Valley,_Ohio

Undoubtedly, there was some racial flight, but the appeal of the larger lots and more modern homes of the outer ring suburbs also was significant, especially as limited access highways were developed beginning in the 1950s. The joke in Lake County was that Mentor should have been re-named New Euclid, as many former Euclid residents labored there to recreate a modern and improved Euclid in Mentor, down to marginal roads flanking Route 2 for industrial parks and a mega high school, but certainly with larger lots and bigger homes. Check the growth of Mentor following the building of Routes 2 and 90:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentor,_Ohio

There are likely scores of outer ring suburbs that experienced such explosive growth in Greater Cleveland.

[october2007]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I've felt the same about cedar Fairmount. I mean it's a great area, but you're right you'd think you'd see more people. Maybe they spend all their time at University circle? I bet that's the main reason why people live there. Though nighttown, vero, the Fairmount are all awesome.

I think the culture you're talking about is still there though just less clearly. The Jewish deli thing might not really be there, but go to slymans, gallucis, sterle's- all on the east side! Walk through asiatown and check out some restaurants. Red chimney in Slavic village, the Balaton at Shaker square. Bialys bagels in university heights is pretty great too, maybe that counts for the Jewish bagel thing. Corky and Lenny's in beachwood is the classic one though. There really is still a lot. Try a few of those and let us know how it was. I'm happy to suggest more too.

Well, I'll have to check out some of those places....still discovering what's here. I think because Cedar Fairmount area reminds me a tiny bit of Coolidge Corner in Brookline (architecture) I was expecting more of a Jewish presence as there is in Brookline. Anyway...thanks for the suggestions and once I get a car I'll check out Beachwood.

[october2007]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Shaker Hts. originally had restrictive covenants to prevent Jews and African Americans from purchasing homes.

<< The covenants in Shaker Heights and Forest Hill did not mention any specific racial group but required that a property could not be re-sold without the consent of the developer and/or the surrounding neighbors. This vagueness meant that any undesirable neighbor could be excluded – for his occupation or politics, for example. The context in which those covenants were created in Shaker Heights and Forest Hill, however, make it clear that the real targets, as elsewhere, were Jews and African Americans.>>

Deferring Dreams: Racial and Religious Covenants in Shaker Heights, Cleveland Heights and East Cleveland, 1925 to 1970 By Marian Morton – Teaching Cleveland Digital

Some of the most wealthy residents of the Heights area migrated to the estates of the far eastern suburbs, such as Hunting Valley, as cars and better highways eliminated the need for the use of mass transit for commutes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_Valley,_Ohio

Undoubtedly, there was some racial flight, but the appeal of the larger lots and more modern homes of the outer ring suburbs also was significant, especially as limited access highways were developed beginning in the 1950s. The joke in Lake County was that Mentor should have been re-named New Euclid, as many former Euclid residents labored there to recreate a modern and improved Euclid in Mentor, down to marginal roads flanking Route 2 for industrial parks and a mega high school, but certainly with larger lots and bigger homes. Check the growth of Mentor following the building of Routes 2 and 90:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentor,_Ohio

There are likely scores of outer ring suburbs that experienced such explosive growth in Greater Cleveland.

Interesting...I guess part of what puzzles me is that the inner ring suburbs here aren't more bustling and desirable due to proximity to downtown as I've experienced in other cities. However, perhaps proximity to downtown Cleveland isn't that important or desirable to most. Things are very different here than other places I've lived and still trying to figure it out.

[OhioNative]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Shaker Hts. originally had restrictive covenants to prevent Jews and African Americans from purchasing homes.

<< The covenants in Shaker Heights and Forest Hill did not mention any specific racial group but required that a property could not be re-sold without the consent of the developer and/or the surrounding neighbors. This vagueness meant that any undesirable neighbor could be excluded – for his occupation or politics, for example. The context in which those covenants were created in Shaker Heights and Forest Hill, however, make it clear that the real targets, as elsewhere, were Jews and African Americans.>>

Deferring Dreams: Racial and Religious Covenants in Shaker Heights, Cleveland Heights and East Cleveland, 1925 to 1970 By Marian Morton – Teaching Cleveland Digital

Some of the most wealthy residents of the Heights area migrated to the estates of the far eastern suburbs, such as Hunting Valley, as cars and better highways eliminated the need for the use of mass transit for commutes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_Valley,_Ohio

Undoubtedly, there was some racial flight, but the appeal of the larger lots and more modern homes of the outer ring suburbs also was significant, especially as limited access highways were developed beginning in the 1950s. The joke in Lake County was that Mentor should have been re-named New Euclid, as many former Euclid residents labored there to recreate a modern and improved Euclid in Mentor, down to marginal roads flanking Route 2 for industrial parks and a mega high school, but certainly with larger lots and bigger homes. Check the growth of Mentor following the building of Routes 2 and 90:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentor,_Ohio

There are likely scores of outer ring suburbs that experienced such explosive growth in Greater Cleveland.

My grandparents-in-law did exactly that. They moved from Collinwood to the city of Euclid and then to Mentor in the late 50s. Mentor was considered to be out in the middle of nowhere, and the grandmother was not happy to be living in the country among the farm fields and rose nurseries. When they were alive they readily admitted that they and everyone they knew moved out of Cleveland due to the demographic changes, mainly out of fear.

[october2007]

Originally Posted by OhioNative

My grandparents-in-law did exactly that. They moved from Collinwood to the city of Euclid and then to Mentor in the late 50s. Mentor was considered to be out in the middle of nowhere, and the grandmother was not happy to be living in the country among the farm fields and rose nurseries. When they were alive they readily admitted that they and everyone they knew moved out of Cleveland due to the demographic changes, mainly out of fear.

So I guess my next question is Are many younger or other people moving into these areas now? Or are these areas considered undesirable? Usually areas around colleges are densely populated but as I've said I don't see that many people around (given all the apt. buildings).

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by OhioNative

My grandparents-in-law did exactly that. They moved from Collinwood to the city of Euclid and then to Mentor in the late 50s. Mentor was considered to be out in the middle of nowhere, and the grandmother was not happy to be living in the country among the farm fields and rose nurseries. When they were alive they readily admitted that they and everyone they knew moved out of Cleveland due to the demographic changes, mainly out of fear.

Euclid really didn't experience a lot of diversity until long after the 1950s. Those small bungalows on small lots that dominated Euclid's housing stock south of Lakeshore couldn't compete with Mentor's suburban developments. They were popular, however, with baby boomers working downtown, starting out and wanting to build equity even through the 1980s, based on several friends of mine. African Americans first migrated to the areas south of Route 2.

In 2010, Euclid still was 44 percent white.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid,_Ohio

It's somewhat sad as I remember when Mentor was the nursery capital of the U.S. However, I miss much more the many orchards which once punctuated Lake County.

[WRnative]

Jack's Deli on Cedar Road is considered one of the very best delis in Greater Cleveland.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaura...land_Ohio.html

Van Aken Center at the end of the Blue Line used to be fairly bustling, and probably will be again once redeveloped.

Demolition begins at Van Aken Center (photos) | cleveland.com

University Circle, especially Uptown, Litttle Italy, and Beachwood Place mall, La Place, and Legacy Village (perhaps especially the latter) currently are the more bustling areas on the near east side.

I haven't been to Coventry in a while, so I don't know how it's faring these days. With Tommy's and Mac's Backs and Big Fun still there, it still sounds like a great visit. It used to be difficult to find parking there. Tommy's is one of the most iconic restaurants in Greater Cleveland and literally a great place to just hang out.

Coventry Village | Cleveland Heights Ohio

Are you a Harvey Pekar fan?

http://coventryvillage.org/2010/07/h...kar-1939-2010/

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by october2007

Interesting...I guess part of what puzzles me is that the inner ring suburbs here aren't more bustling and desirable due to proximity to downtown as I've experienced in other cities.

Have you been to Coventry Village yet? Happy Dog at Euclid Inn in Uptown is another personal favorite for dogs, tater tots, all of the toppings, good beer on tap, and pinball, but get there before the bands and cover charge unless that's your thing. The Happy Dog also has cultural offerings such as lectures.

About HAPPY DOG at The Euclid Tavern