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Old 05-02-2017, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,695 posts, read 28,305,050 times
Reputation: 35861

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Quote:
If I was a black man, I'd be more inclined to believe someone would hire me, help me, or treat me with respect in PDX than in Cleveland.
How many black friends in Portland do you have? I had quite a few until most dispersed in the 90's. They got pushed out of their neighborhoods when their neighborhoods became gentrified. So did white people, but whites had more opportunities to move to other neighborhoods where they were not discriminated against by landlords.

Some moved to the suburbs where they were able to find decent housing. Those who moved out of state just wanted a chance for a better life at a job where their color wasn't an issue and they weren't looked upon as oddities because they were so rare.

And there is also a discrimination problem against Asians, there have been articles written about it in the local newspaper.

I would say that Portland has more bigotry than many cities due to the lack of black people historically living there and due to the fact that it has a very dark past of discrimination. There are just not that many groups other than whites that live in Portland so the discrimination isn't all that obvious but it's there.

To say a black person would be treated better in Portland than in Cleveland is debatable to say the lease. Sure there is discrimination and bigotry but I think there is also more opportunity.

My one black friend who still lives in Portland and has lived there since the 60's is thinking of moving back to the South where she is originally from when she retires soon. As she says, if a Southerner is going to be prejudiced, at least he'll tell you to your face rather than the oh-so-nice condescending attitude she sees in Portland which is happening more and more in the years she has lived there.

I am not saying all people of color who are living in Portland are miserable, but there is a reason why Portland is said to be one of the whitest cities in the US. It's simply not the most welcoming place for minorities and I don't see that Cleveland is in any way worse.

Bottom line is you are making all these claims to stack Portland up against Cleveland. You are using statements about Portland based on very little personal experience and without first hand knowledge to substantiate your claims.

I really would like to know if you are so down on Cleveland, why are you here?

 
Old 05-02-2017, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,695 posts, read 28,305,050 times
Reputation: 35861
Quote:
Originally Posted by pufflesmcfacehair View Post
That was 30 years ago. And once again, objectively, PDX is far, far more friendly than Cleveland to minorities. Objective.

Objectively.

Cleveland is more segregated.
Is 2015-16 new enough for you?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...rtland/492035/

Gentrifying Portland: A tale of two cities - CNN.com

https://www.quora.com/Is-Portlands-r...city-justified

I would appreciate your also posting links to support your claims that Portland is less racist than Cleveland. What can you show to support your "objectivity" regarding Portland?
 
Old 05-02-2017, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,044 posts, read 12,306,095 times
Reputation: 10365
Strawman!!!
 
Old 05-02-2017, 06:54 PM
 
Location: cleveland
2,365 posts, read 4,351,797 times
Reputation: 1645
Quote:
Originally Posted by pufflesmcfacehair View Post
That was 30 years ago. And once again, objectively, PDX is far, far more friendly than Cleveland to minorities. Objective.

Objectively.

Cleveland is more segregated.
Im a minority in cleveland, and I have been met with mostly positive experiences regarding coworkers and acquaintances who are black.

Last edited by 1watertiger; 05-02-2017 at 06:56 PM.. Reason: Spelling
 
Old 05-02-2017, 07:34 PM
 
120 posts, read 105,980 times
Reputation: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by pufflesmcfacehair View Post
I choose to rent. Where I live is the borderline of the west gentrification.

Gentrification won't go any farther west toward Lakewood - unless Cleveland improves schools, streetscapes, financial issues, and job market.
Many of those things are already happening in the city. You've already been found wrong on a number of your rants so I'm not going to waste my time proving it again. You're the typical miserable person with too much time on their hands. Everything you see is negative. What an awful way to live.

Luckily for all of us who live in and love the city, your "old Cleveland" attitude is slowly dying off. Good riddance.

Last edited by C-rob2727; 05-02-2017 at 07:46 PM..
 
Old 05-02-2017, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
378 posts, read 336,947 times
Reputation: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by pufflesmcfacehair View Post
I choose to rent. Where I live is the borderline of the west gentrification.

Gentrification won't go any farther west toward Lakewood - unless Cleveland improves schools, streetscapes, financial issues, and job market.
I think there's enough sustained concentrated wealth in D-S that it will continue to push toward the Lakewood border. House prices on W81 between Detroit and Franklin point to an upward trend since I moved into the area two years ago. There's also a big visual change in terms of housing restoration. The real holdout will be southern D-S because it's separated by the tracks and lacks the housing stability and transit access of Cudell. That being said, there is streetscape work that is planned for Lorain, so that will have an impact.

There are current issues with alleged gang activity between Detroit and Lake, but there is a strong possibility that it's a result of gentrification pushing west and minimizing the available turf. I noted a bit of a spike in gun activity near my house last summer before I moved out of the neighborhood and I think that was the beginning of this new uptick in activity. I believe there may be some type of infighting with the predominate gang in that immediate area which is why there has historically been issues with W80. From what I understand, the activity has largely moved north of Detroit with that area between Detroit and Lake acting as a weird crime vortex. I'm not sure where you are in relation to that.
 
Old 05-03-2017, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,695 posts, read 28,305,050 times
Reputation: 35861
Quote:
Originally Posted by pufflesmcfacehair View Post
Where did I use the term "racist"? Racism and segregation are not the same thing. Strawman, logical fallacy. Racism exists everywhere. It just can be argued to exist systemically in Cleveland. So at this point I'll say, yes, it would seem Cleveland is more "racist". In fact, as a white person, I cannot walk into numerous neighborhoods in Cleveland. I've walked dozens of miles up and down MLK, Alberta, Killingsworth, Failing in PDX. It felt like walking through Tremont at 4 pm. People greeting me, saying hello. Not shooting at me or screaming at me. I could walk any neighborhood at night in Portland save for maybe a few and feel safe. If we want to get into the subjective experience, that is.

Besides, I can post links showing that the DOJ investigated Cleveland PD - multiple times, if I recall.

It is easy to find material showing Cleveland is the most segregated city or one of the most. Once again, facts. Objective. Facts.

These forums get redundant when facts are denied.
You did say if you were a black person in Portland you know you would be treated better than in Cleveland. That doesn't sound as if you were speaking of segregation. It sounds more along the lines of your description of racism in Cleveland.

The Portland neighborhoods you have listed are those that were once ghettos that looked every bit as bad any segregated neighborhoods in Cleveland. They are now in the process or already are in the process of being gentrified. There is not much concern today about walking around them as there was a decade ago. I am curious as to why you would single these out. Maybe because you saw some black people there? That would be those who could afford to stay while their neighbors were being pushed out into the evre increasing segregated areas to make room the the new wave of white transplants.

Did you take a stroll in Hazelwood, Lents, Powellhurst-Gilbert, Centennial and Montavilla? Some or all of these are not areas anyone with any sense would want to be walking in at 4:00 am. Did you walk on 82nd towards the mall and farther east up to around 102nd?

I know the crime and problems Cleveland has. I never said they didn't exist. What I want to see is your links that substantiate what you are saying about Portland. Just you saying it's facts doesn't mean it is.

If Cleveland is one most segregated cities, it would be because Cleveland has far more minorities to be racist towards. If Portland doesn't have as much discrimination as Cleveland it's because there are far fewer numbers of minorities to be racists towards. The comparisons are by no means equal. You could go to any city lacking in diversity and make comparisons to one that does. You will always come out with the more diverse city having more segregation.

You can say what you like regarding your opinions of Cleveland and they would hold some weight because you live here. But just being a visitor to another city doesn't make you an expert on that city as well. You can do a search for the topics of racism and segregation in Portland on the Portland forum because it's a subject that often comes up there. I think you will find that many posting there who live in Portland would not find your "facts" as being accurate.

Some further stats to educate about Portland:

GoLocalPDX | Portland’s Most Dangerous Neighborhoods
 
Old 05-03-2017, 08:45 AM
 
Location: cleveland
2,365 posts, read 4,351,797 times
Reputation: 1645
Quote:
Originally Posted by pufflesmcfacehair View Post
That was 30 years ago. And once again, objectively, PDX is far, far more friendly than Cleveland to minorities. Objective.

Objectively.

Cleveland is more segregated.
Why make this comparison? The cities are completely different regarding your topics/comments.
Portland: - population 630,000
- black population 36,000 (6.3%)
- 20 homicides (2016)

Cleveland - population 395,000
- black population 209,000 (53%)
- 136 homicides (2016)

I put in homicides to give you something else to rant negatively about.

Now, how do these two very different cities compare regarding culture ,cultural institutions/amentities, or pro sports?
 
Old 05-03-2017, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,695 posts, read 28,305,050 times
Reputation: 35861
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1watertiger View Post
Why make this comparison? The cities are completely different regarding your topics/comments.
Portland: - population 630,000
- black population 36,000 (6.3%)
- 20 homicides (2016)

Cleveland - population 395,000
- black population 209,000 (53%)
- 136 homicides (2016)

I put in homicides to give you something else to rant negatively about.

Now, how do these two very different cities compare regarding culture ,cultural institutions/amentities, or pro sports?
Exactly. To use the tired old expression, "apples and oranges."

I don't know why he's picking on Portland to make his comparisons. There are many other cities more comparable to Cleveland with which far more accurate comparisons can be made.
 
Old 05-03-2017, 10:46 AM
 
Location: New Mexico via Ohio via Indiana
1,774 posts, read 2,183,545 times
Reputation: 2868
^^^Looks like this is becoming the new Cleveland city-vs-city site.
I didn't mean that as a good thing.
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