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I've been finding this thread (and some of the others) all very interesting. I've lived in the Northeastern U.S. for nearly 30 years and am very familiar with Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, and D.C. The bulk of my family lives in Chicago, so I'm very familiar with that city as well. Oh, and I have a sister who lived in the San Francisco area for many years and now lives near Portland. I travel regularly to Southern California (L.A. and San Diego) for my job.
Cleveland is where I want to retire.
I feel bad that so many people from Cleveland feel so defensive about their city. In one respect I'm very glad that I've had a chance to live in the East and spend extensive time in Chicago and California. If I retire to Cleveland, I will feel very secure with my choice. I've seen the greater world, and I know all the pros and cons.
I think some of the people who are from Cleveland and have never lived any place else should try living in other cities for a while. Only then will they fully internalize that concept that the grass is always greener...
I've been finding this thread (and some of the others) all very interesting. I've lived in the Northeastern U.S. for nearly 30 years and am very familiar with Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, and D.C. The bulk of my family lives in Chicago, so I'm very familiar with that city as well. Oh, and I have a sister who lived in the San Francisco area for many years and now lives near Portland. I travel regularly to Southern California (L.A. and San Diego) for my job.
Cleveland is where I want to retire.
I feel bad that so many people from Cleveland feel so defensive about their city. In one respect I'm very glad that I've had a chance to live in the East and spend extensive time in Chicago and California. If I retire to Cleveland, I will feel very secure with my choice. I've seen the greater world, and I know all the pros and cons.
I think some of the people who are from Cleveland and have never lived any place else should try living in other cities for a while. Only then will they fully internalize that concept that the grass is always greener...
Good for you for considering Cleveland. My background is similar to yours. I've lived in Chicago and
Portland, OR. I have a sister in LA and have visited there many times. I am familiar with the PNW and San Francisco.
I chose the Cleveland area for retirement. I don't really give a flying fig as to other people's negative opinions about Cleveland. I made the right choice which was based on what would work for me. I think many misconceptions of Cleveland comes from hearsay. When I told Portland friends I was relocating to Cleveland to retire I got all kinds of Clevand bashing responses from people who never set foot here.
Last edited by Minervah; 05-14-2017 at 09:42 AM..
Reason: Correcting typos. Trying to type with a kitty on my lap.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,312,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gouldnm
I feel bad that so many people from Cleveland feel so defensive about their city. In one respect I'm very glad that I've had a chance to live in the East and spend extensive time in Chicago and California. If I retire to Cleveland, I will feel very secure with my choice. I've seen the greater world, and I know all the pros and cons.
I think some of the people who are from Cleveland and have never lived any place else should try living in other cities for a while. Only then will they fully internalize that concept that the grass is always greener...
Well, I'm from Cleveland and I spent 20 years in Chicago, and IMO the grass was greener there, for me at least.
Of course, everyone views things through the prism of their own life situation and experiences, and there is no "one size fits all". One man's meat is another man's poison and all that...
I've been finding this thread (and some of the others) all very interesting. I've lived in the Northeastern U.S. for nearly 30 years and am very familiar with Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, and D.C. The bulk of my family lives in Chicago, so I'm very familiar with that city as well. Oh, and I have a sister who lived in the San Francisco area for many years and now lives near Portland. I travel regularly to Southern California (L.A. and San Diego) for my job.
Cleveland is where I want to retire.
I feel bad that so many people from Cleveland feel so defensive about their city. In one respect I'm very glad that I've had a chance to live in the East and spend extensive time in Chicago and California. If I retire to Cleveland, I will feel very secure with my choice. I've seen the greater world, and I know all the pros and cons.
I think some of the people who are from Cleveland and have never lived any place else should try living in other cities for a while. Only then will they fully internalize that concept that the grass is always greener...
Maybe Cleveland is a good place to retire to after you've lived in other places and are at a different place in your life. I notice you didn't choose to live here during the rest of your life and I wonder if you would have enjoyed it as much then. Not trying to be snide...I really wonder.
Well, I'm from Cleveland and I spent 20 years in Chicago, and IMO the grass was greener there, for me at least.
Of course, everyone views things through the prism of their own life situation and experiences, and there is no "one size fits all". One man's meat is another man's poison and all that...
In a way, that's the point. I'm not trying to say that Cleveland is better or worse than other cities. They all have their pros and cons. I don't understand why Clevelanders worry so much about what people in other cities think.
Maybe Cleveland is a good place to retire to after you've lived in other places and are at a different place in your life. I notice you didn't choose to live here during the rest of your life and I wonder if you would have enjoyed it as much then. Not trying to be snide...I really wonder.
I moved to the East Coast (after graduating from Ohio State) because that's where the most interesting jobs are. The East has HUGE economic advantages over the Midwest. But that doesn't mean the quality of life is better. In many ways it's worse.
Like I said, there are pros and cons to every place. It also depends on what stage you are in life.
You ask if I would have enjoyed Cleveland when I was younger. I think a lot of that depends on if I had an interesting job and how stable it was. Money isn't everything, but you do need a certain level of income to enjoy life. So having stable employment is very important to me.
But places with great employment opportunities also tend to be over-crowded and expensive. People are more interested in their careers than they are in community or making friends.
As far as entertainment and things to do, I think Cleveland has plenty to offer, and a lot of it is more accessible than in East Coast cities. Plus there is a stronger sense of community.
I moved to the East Coast (after graduating from Ohio State) because that's where the most interesting jobs are. The East has HUGE economic advantages over the Midwest. But that doesn't mean the quality of life is better. In many ways it's worse.
Like I said, there are pros and cons to every place. It also depends on what stage you are in life.
You ask if I would have enjoyed Cleveland when I was younger. I think a lot of that depends on if I had an interesting job and how stable it was. Money isn't everything, but you do need a certain level of income to enjoy life. So having stable employment is very important to me.
But places with great employment opportunities also tend to be over-crowded and expensive. People are more interested in their careers than they are in community or making friends.
As far as entertainment and things to do, I think Cleveland has plenty to offer, and a lot of it is more accessible than in East Coast cities. Plus there is a stronger sense of community.
Exactly. A lot of people on this forum assume that people don't really have many experiences if they enjoy Cleveland more than elsewhere. But there are more than a few good reasons to do so.
I really don't want to go back to what I grew up with in Michigan, which was highly segregated.
The segregation today in Cleveland, with the exception perhaps of some neighborhoods (often on the west side?), is more socio-economic than racial. I had Caucasian friends who lived in an upscale Shaker Heights neighborhood, and both of their neighboring homes housed African American families.
Greater Cleveland has an historical reputation for tolerance and has prided itself on being a pioneer in racial relations. That doesn't mean that there hasn't been overt racial segregation, discrimination, prejudice and racial tensions, such as "white flight" after mandatory busing to integrate schools was implemented in the late 1970s.
The tradition of racial tolerance was strong in the 19th century in Greater Cleveland, as represented by historic figures resident here such as John Brown and James A. Garfield, and the emergence of Oberlin College, both as a hotbed of abolitionist activity and as the first interracial college (it's also was the first co-educational college) in the U.S.
Even in the 20th century, Cleveland was relatively culturally integrated, as evidenced by a recent cleveland.com article about Leo's, a famous music club.
<<
But Cleveland's historic nightclub Leo's Casino was about more than music -- even when acts such as the Supremes were using the stage as a springboard to stardom.
"The world felt like it was falling apart, and yet in Leo's you'd have everybody singing together -- black and white, full of love and joy for music," says Supremes singer Mary Wilson. >>
Contrast this with famously segregated clubs in other northern cities, such as the Cotton Club in NYC.
This racial tolerance and integrated music tradition certainly enabled Cleveland to become the racial cross-over hotbed for the emergence of rock and roll in the post-WWII era north of the Mason-Dixon line, and provides the historical nexus for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and Museum's location in Cleveland.
<<At one point, when he was at Record Rendezvous, Cleveland’s largest record store, he was taken aback by the large number of white teenagers who were buying R&B records, or what were then called “race records.” At the suggestion of Leo Mintz, the owner of the store, Freed began programming the music on a late-night show on WJW called the “Moondog Rock ‘n’ Roll Party.” He was the first white deejay on the North Coast to play these rhythm & blues records.>>
Cleveland also was at the forefront of integration of professional sports, both in baseball and football.
Larry Doby and the extraordinarily great Satchel Paige played key roles in the Indians last World Series championship season, becoming the first African American World Series champions. Remember that at that time, there were no play-off series and the regular season league champions advanced directly to the World Series, making the relatively elderly Paige's powerful late season contributions especially important to Cleveland's American League pennant season.
<<
Larry Doby Jr. said that his father, who died in 2003, did not dwell on those who protested his presence with the Indians.
“He said he never got booed in Cleveland,” the younger Doby said in an interview. Initially, he was skeptical of his father’s claim, but “when I got over the shock of hearing it, I realized it was true. It was a special place for him and my family, and whenever we’d go back, I’d see how he was greeted when he wasn’t playing.”>>
The legendary Paul Brown, for whom the Browns franchise is named, helped re-integrate professional football.
<<
Bobby Mitchell, the Washington Redskins' assistant general manager who played for Brown in the 1960's, recalled an incident in Miami when the manager of a hotel informed Brown that the hotel would not accommodate Cleveland's black players.
''Paul Brown looked him right in the eye and said, 'No, our team stays together,' '' Mitchell recalled. ''They had words, and finally Paul told them: 'I'll tell you what then. We'll just get back on the plane and go back home.' The manager said, 'You can't do that.' Brown said: 'Is that so? Our players stay together.' So they relented.''>>
Benjamin O. Davis, Jr., who became commander of the famed Tuskegee Airmen in WWII and the first African American general in American history, was graduated from Cleveland's Central High School and briefly later became the city's public safety director after his military career retirement.
Caucasians from Lake County were responsible for one of the most notorious murder/home invasion incidents in Shaker Hts. history, if that makes you feel better about the racial identity of perpetrators of crimes in Cleveland, as commented upon in your post.
Thanks, WRNative. I enjoyed reading the history, although the part I found most reassuring was the first paragraph in your post.
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