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Old 09-10-2017, 08:18 AM
 
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Also, why are people arguing about this? It's an interesting debate, but none of the 3-Cs stand any chance, so no reason to get all worked up either way. It'll likely go to a much larger city than any of them.
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Old 09-10-2017, 09:08 AM
 
3,513 posts, read 5,136,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Kansas City, St. Louis, Chicago, Washington and New York just to name a few.

As far as retail goes, Amazon could move literally anywhere and get plenty of people in the grocery retail side to come work for them. They don't have to be in the same city as a strong grocery competitor.
If Chicago went multi-state it would place the HQ in the southside straddling East Chicago. I don't think they'd want to be there if they went Chicago.

St. Louis - same issue as Chicago. It'd cost a ton just to secure the buildings in East St. Louis, and on top of that IL doesn't appear to be able to offer a good tax incentive package for it.

Washington DC... it also could, but you'd have trouble finding enough vacant land on both sides of the Potomac to create a cohesive campus in the type of area Amazon is looking for.

New York.. ditto DC.


Kansas City... possibly. I'm not too familiar with it. From a quick skyview it looks like it might be possible to have a cohesive multi-state campus and be close to both downtowns IF they put it in the West Bottoms neighborhood.


Cincinnati has the clear advantage here because The Banks + the IRS site + Ovations in Newport could come together to make one cohesive multi-state HQ in a central downtown location that can hold 8 million square feet. Nowhere else can match it, at least from the standpoint of easily and cost effectively building out 8 million square feet in a central business district.
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Old 09-10-2017, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Kennedy Heights, Ohio. USA
3,860 posts, read 3,112,768 times
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Originally Posted by SWOH View Post
If Chicago went multi-state it would place the HQ in the southside straddling East Chicago. I don't think they'd want to be there if they went Chicago.

St. Louis - same issue as Chicago. It'd cost a ton just to secure the buildings in East St. Louis, and on top of that IL doesn't appear to be able to offer a good tax incentive package for it.

Washington DC... it also could, but you'd have trouble finding enough vacant land on both sides of the Potomac to create a cohesive campus in the type of area Amazon is looking for.

New York.. ditto DC.


Kansas City... possibly. I'm not too familiar with it. From a quick skyview it looks like it might be possible to have a cohesive multi-state campus and be close to both downtowns IF they put it in the West Bottoms neighborhood.


Cincinnati has the clear advantage here because The Banks + the IRS site + Ovations in Newport could come together to make one cohesive multi-state HQ in a central downtown location that can hold 8 million square feet. Nowhere else can match it, at least from the standpoint of easily and cost effectively building out 8 million square feet in a central business district.
I was also thinking of the Ovation site in Newport. Very efficient location well served by mass transit in the heart of Cincinnati's urban core . Jeff Bezos already has 2 or 3 cities already in mind for where he will locate his 2nd HQ. Only thing he is doing now is making it seem like all these other cities has a chance as to ring cost concessions from the 2 or 3 cities he is really targeting. If it happens kudos but if it doesn't happen there was never really a serious chance that it was going to happen anyway. That is why it is a waste of energy to get hyped up about this. It is almost like Powerball mania when the lottery jackpot reaches $400 million motivating people to form long lines at convenient stores hoping to buy the winning ticket.The good thing about this is it will serve as a wake up call to metropolitan areas on what it needs to do in terms of infrastructure upgrades just to be seriously considered as a candidate for rare opportunities like these.

Last edited by Coseau; 09-10-2017 at 09:56 AM..
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Old 09-10-2017, 10:05 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,336,662 times
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Originally Posted by Coseau View Post
I was also thinking of the Ovation site in Newport. Very efficient location well served by mass transit in the heart of Cincinnati's urban core . Jeff Bezos already has 2 or 3 cities already in mind for where he will locate his 2nd HQ. Only thing he is doing now is making it seem like all these other cities has a chance as to ring cost concessions from the 2 or 3 cities he is really targeting. If it happens kudos but if it doesn't happen there was never really a serious chance that it was going to happen anyway. That is why it is a waste of energy to get hyped up about this. It is almost like Powerball mania when the lottery jackpot reaches $400 million motivating people to form long lines at convenient stores hoping to buy the winning ticket.The good thing about this is it will serve as a wake up call to metropolitan areas on what it needs to do in terms of infrastructure upgrades just to be seriously considered as a candidate for rare opportunities like these.
If the state's development agencies already don't have pitches prepared, it's a good exercise to do so.

It may provide excellent experience, and identify areas for improvement, when making future pitches.

Hopefully the state's "business" Governor Kasich and Republicans will take notice of Amazon's interest in robust mass transit. It's doubtful IMO, as the primary goal of the Republicans is delivering tax cuts and grants to their supporters, while raising taxes on most Ohioans, often directly through local tax increases, while gutting the state's infrastructure and human capital investments.
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Old 09-10-2017, 10:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Cincinnati does have a CSA.
I actually think CSA is the least useful population designation, especially when doing any kind of comparison for cities. It's good for media market size, but not much else.
How large is the CIN designated CSA?

Answer: the same at its MSA.

Cleveland's current CSA is its old MSA. Counties directly adjacent to Cuyahoga County are no longer counted in CLE MSA with new census rules so it's like over a million+ people sitting there. Imagine 1 million people or sitting adjacent to Hamilton and Franklin Counties not being counted in CIN and COL MSAs.

The CLE MSA is now 5 counties....CIN is about 10.

Over 1 million+ people did not leave CLE MSA in 10 years. Sorry I know that's what other cities in OH want to believe. So, in CLE if someone moves from Brecksville (Cuyahoga Co) and moves to Hudson (into adjacent Summit Co.) then CLE MSA loses 1 person.

The CLE area is sprawling.

CSAs are much more accurate and are not limited to the media market. Nice try though.

Last edited by Kamms; 09-10-2017 at 11:01 AM..
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:08 AM
 
16,345 posts, read 17,984,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
How large is the CIN designated CSA?

Answer: the same at its MSA.

Cleveland's current CSA is its old MSA. Counties directly adjacent to Cuyahoga County are no longer counted in CLE MSA with new census rules so it's like over a million+ people sitting there. Imagine 1 million people or sitting adjacent to Hamilton and Franklin Counties not being counted in CIN and COL MSAs.

The CLE MSA is now 5 counties....CIN is about 10.

Over 1 million+ people did not leave CLE MSA in 10 years. Sorry I know that's what other cities in OH want to believe. So, in CLE if someone moves from Brecksville (Cuyahoga Co) and moves to Hudson (into adjacent Summit Co.) then CLE MSA loses 1 person.

The CLE area is sprawling.

CSAs are much more accurate and are not limited to the media market. Nice try though.

The Cincinnati CSA is actually 2 counties larger than its MSA, so not the same.


Do you think Jeff Bezos is analyzing how many counties are in a city's CSA? I don't. I don't think Amazon's looking at things in the same way that Ohio 3-C homers judge their importance. People need to be realistic.
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:19 AM
 
4,823 posts, read 4,918,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Also, why are people arguing about this? It's an interesting debate, but none of the 3-Cs stand any chance, so no reason to get all worked up either way. It'll likely go to a much larger city than any of them.
Again, why isn't there a thread in the CIN forum on this topic then; that's how you avoid arguments especially with the same CIN posters that come with your CIN city forum starter kit.

There's obviously zero (-0-) enthusiasm in CIN for this Amazon project. So the alternative is to crash into CLE's discussion and point out CIN superiority in getting this. CLE needs to be humbled after all.

The real reason is that CLE has gotten too much (actually any) positive exposure; the RNC going to CLE really has ruffled CIN's feathers as the RNC showed off the new CLE to the country and world.

CIN needs to upgrade its Arena. Instead of focusing on metro light-rail systems, it needs to get that arena upgraded; problem is, there is no NHL or NBA franchise to use it to the huge investment worthwhile.
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:29 AM
 
4,823 posts, read 4,918,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
The Cincinnati CSA is actually 2 counties larger than its MSA, so not the same.


Do you think Jeff Bezos is analyzing how many counties are in a city's CSA? I don't. I don't think Amazon's looking at things in the same way that Ohio 3-C homers judge their importance. People need to be realistic.
Can you follow along here please...CIN streetcar guy made sure to announce CLE is the 3rd OH city. Just another misleading fact from the CIN spin machine.

Actually the CIN MSA is 13 counties...CLE MSA has 5 counties.

Oh, the CIN CSA adds 90,000...wow.

CLE's CSA adds 1.5 million to its MSA; Greater Cleveland-Northeast Ohio adds a total of about 2.3 million to CLE's MSA...totaling about 4.3 million people.

The CLE media market is twice the size of CIN's...move on now.

Last edited by Kamms; 09-10-2017 at 11:41 AM..
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:30 AM
 
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The MSA/CSA argument as it pertains to Cleveland and NEO as a whole is a losing battle with the cheerleaders of the other 2 Cs. They are so incapable of grasping the obvious that it really makes no sense in even pursuing it as an argument. However, if you live in NEO, you understand the economic influence of the nuclear city and county. Tbh, there's really not much of a comparison. Cleveland's central influence affects a population of close to 5 million people.
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:47 AM
 
4,823 posts, read 4,918,376 times
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Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
The MSA/CSA argument as it pertains to Cleveland and NEO as a whole is a losing battle with the cheerleaders of the other 2 Cs. They are so incapable of grasping the obvious that it really makes no sense in even pursuing it as an argument. However, if you live in NEO, you understand the economic influence of the nuclear city and county. Tbh, there's really not much of a comparison. Cleveland's central influence affects a population of close to 5 million people.
Right, I know making the point is useless. I was around some CIN people in CLE last year for the 1st time. I guess they were expecting some small town dump. The Rapid Transit system blew them away...we were on a Blue Line train...commenting that they ''didn't think CLE was this big''....no comparison.
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