Reason for Lakewood's Steady Population Loss? (Cleveland, Shaker Heights: apartment, condos, limousine)

[Larry Siegel]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Sure it is -- if you're able to turn a blind eye to all the mentally ill roaming the streets.

Not to mention the smash-n-grabs, late-night drugstore robberies, people shooting guns into houses, young people of all races talking "ghetto" everywhere you go, etc.

I didn't know that. I don't live there. I just have a friend who lives there.

[bjimmy24]

I guess Lakewood is big. I have a couple friends over there who love it, I've never heard of any of the things mentioned here. I'm sure they happen though. But yeah, Lakewood is big.

[kpl1228]

Originally Posted by Kamms

See response above: 30% population drop is not natural attrition or a few families leaving in search of the ''perfect school''.

What you describe is real; what you didn't include are the armed street robberies that go on in Lakewood.

Lakewood is seeing the inner-ring suburb effect. Lots of rentals in Lakewood. Hopefully it can stabilize and increase its population and tax base.

Ok......I'm taking the bait.
Lots of rentals in Lakewood? Yes, for a CENTURY. Always had them. Doubles, houses behind houses, apartments, always been in Lakewood and is part of the vibe. And almost all of those were built in and around the 20's. This is not a new issue. Some of the highest density housing in the country per capita, if I recall correctly. Renters (numerous) have been part of Lakewood for over a century. Always.
Another reason for the drop is people moving to outer burbs looking for a bigger yard. Always been an issue in Lakewood, at least since the post-war years. I probably should have added that to the reasons.
I agree with the inner ring effect (both positive and negative) but stabilized? Lakewood is quite stable housing wise (strict upkeep codes as well as solid increasing median home prices). As well as numerous infrastructure improvements and new development.
Schools are fine (I know this for a fact). New school construction in the last decade, great libraries, and solid Parochial school presence if that's your thing.
It's a great burb and I hardly see any drop as any kind of long-continuing trend. It's certainly not a town going "downhill." Shifting/changing/morphing...perhaps, but it's hardly Maple Heights.
Much of this is smaller families now residing in Lakewood. That could be an issue in the future, as most young families are not looking for 4-br 2500 sq. ft. homes with 25 windows built in the 20's, at least not long-term. That IS an inner-ring effect issue. But it'll figure out what to do.
New single housing constrution, not hipster lofts, condos, etc (Lakewood has successfully addressed those)., is an answer....but where...?
I'll be home for the holidays. I'll try not to get robbed while parking in front of a hipster craft brewery, or to not get beaten to death by some of the "Lakewood renters" in line at Angelo's, or to not get run over from the thousands of U-Hauls leaving Lakewood as I park in front of Melt. My fingers are crossed.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by Larry Siegel

I didn't know that. I don't live there. I just have a friend who lives there.

Well, I lived here during the period 1980-1995, and am again living here since late 2015. Having been away for 20 years, I can certainly see the changes.

I see a number of good things going on in today's Lakewood, but I can see the decline too. It's like a city moving in two opposing directions at once. It's affected me so that I have very ambivalent feelings about the city. It's making me wonder whether I want to stay here or not.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by kpl1228

Ok......I'm taking the bait.
Lots of rentals in Lakewood? Yes, for a CENTURY. Always had them. Doubles, houses behind houses, apartments, always been in Lakewood and is part of the vibe. And almost all of those were built in and around the 20's. This is not a new issue. Some of the highest density housing in the country per capita, if I recall correctly. Renters (numerous) have been part of Lakewood for over a century. Always.
Another reason for the drop is people moving to outer burbs looking for a bigger yard. Always been an issue in Lakewood, at least since the post-war years. I probably should have added that to the reasons.
I agree with the inner ring effect (both positive and negative) but stabilized? Lakewood is quite stable housing wise (strict upkeep codes as well as solid increasing median home prices). As well as numerous infrastructure improvements and new development.
Schools are fine (I know this for a fact). New school construction in the last decade, great libraries, and solid Parochial school presence if that's your thing.
It's a great burb and I hardly see any drop as any kind of long-continuing trend. It's certainly not a town going "downhill." Shifting/changing/morphing...perhaps, but it's hardly Maple Heights.
Much of this is smaller families now residing in Lakewood. That could be an issue in the future, as most young families are not looking for 4-br 2500 sq. ft. homes with 25 windows built in the 20's, at least not long-term. That IS an inner-ring effect issue. But it'll figure out what to do.
New single housing constrution, not hipster lofts, condos, etc (Lakewood has successfully addressed those)., is an answer....but where...?
I'll be home for the holidays. I'll try not to get robbed while parking in front of a hipster craft brewery, or to not get beaten to death by some of the "Lakewood renters" in line at Angelo's, or to not get run over from the thousands of U-Hauls leaving Lakewood as I park in front of Melt. My fingers are crossed.

No need for the snarky conclusion here as no one is saying Lakewood is a war zone but don't be cocky. Use your sarcastic line on the Lakewood women (2) shot or attacked as well as multiple car jackings a couple weeks ago by the same guy, the incident ending on the Gold Coast. The increased frequency of violent crime in Lakewood is the issue.

Fewer residents, no matter the reason, does take a toll. We all know the reasons you detail for the population decline.

Lakewood, Cleveland, Cuyahoga County, and the region, all need new residents.

Btw, what are the negative and positive inner ring effects you mentioned but didn't describe?

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I guess Lakewood is big. I have a couple friends over there who love it, I've never heard of any of the things mentioned here. I'm sure they happen though. But yeah, Lakewood is big.

Lakewood is a nice city. Mentioning violent crime though in Lakewood can set off a firestorm here. The point is that this uptick in armed robberies etc is something that no one ever associated with Lakewood at all. It was never an issue before. Attempted car jacking at Bunts/Madison, bank robbery, multiple victims attacked just in the last week or so.

Not to say it's an epidemic, but it happens in today's Lakewood, that's all.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Well, I lived here during the period 1980-1995, and am again living here since late 2015. Having been away for 20 years, I can certainly see the changes.

I see a number of good things going on in today's Lakewood, but I can see the decline too. It's like a city moving in two opposing directions at once. It's affected me so that I have very ambivalent feelings about the city. It's making me wonder whether I want to stay here or not.

Great case in point. You were gone for 20 years or so and have returned to Lakewood so you see the decline but, as you state, there are good things going on in Lakewood as well. The Solstice Steps, some new residential housing, and downtown (core) development as brief positive examples.

Where would you go from Lakewood?

[5Lakes]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Well, I lived here during the period 1980-1995, and am again living here since late 2015. Having been away for 20 years, I can certainly see the changes.

I see a number of good things going on in today's Lakewood, but I can see the decline too. It's like a city moving in two opposing directions at once. It's affected me so that I have very ambivalent feelings about the city. It's making me wonder whether I want to stay here or not.

Do you feel less safe in Lakewood than in Chicago? I was looking at the crime stats and Lakewood appears to have lower crime than Evanston or Oak Park; so I would assume it would be safer than Lakeview or Lincoln Park as well.

[kpl1228]

Originally Posted by 5Lakes

Do you feel less safe in Lakewood than in Chicago? I was looking at the crime stats and Lakewood appears to have lower crime than Evanston or Oak Park; so I would assume it would be safer than Lakeview or Lincoln Park as well.

Lakewood and Evanston have many, many parallels. Noticeable immediately. From renters to the lake to housing stock to mindset (although unlike Lakewood's tavern-filled streets, Evanston was dry for years).
Big difference is Evanston has a Big 10 school.

[kpl1228]

Originally Posted by Kamms

No need for the snarky conclusion here as no one is saying Lakewood is a war zone but don't be cocky. Use your sarcastic line on the Lakewood women (2) shot or attacked as well as multiple car jackings a couple weeks ago by the same guy, the incident ending on the Gold Coast. The increased frequency of violent crime in Lakewood is the issue.

Fewer residents, no matter the reason, does take a toll. We all know the reasons you detail for the population decline.

Lakewood, Cleveland, Cuyahoga County, and the region, all need new residents.

Btw, what are the negative and positive inner ring effects you mentioned but didn't describe?

inner ring effects:
Positive:
focusing on Millennials moving in. Inner-ring suburbs, if they're smart, realize that not all Millennials (esp w kids) want to live in the city proper but still want bike lanes, "green" technology etc etc. that you would find in a hip city neighborhood. Lakewood and the Heights are addressing that....
Increased access to public transportation...
eclectic and diverse food and drink options...
recognizing parks and infrastructure...
dog friendly stuff...
older population that's remaining will need food and health and transportation services just for them (shuttles, etc). Lakewood and the other inner rings are addressing that also...
Not losing site of their histories. Revamping a school instead of tearing them ALL down, parks and libraries etc...
Inner Ring suburbs like Lakewood and CH will support schools and libraries and parks and support them with tax levies etc till their dying day, unlike the Strongsvilles and North Ridgevilles of the world.

Negative:
Most young couples don't want huge houses. Good luck finding tiny starter bungalows or ranches in Lakewood....
said houses are made for BIG families....not designed for the 2017 family in that sense...
Aging roads....
older housing stock....
mixed results on inner ring suburbs strictly enforcing housing and zoning codes and ordinances. Some burbs do, some don't hardly at all...
small yards....
the negative influx of the abutting city....
stigma of the "inner rings" as demonstrated on this posting (everything east of Bunts is not a ghetto...heard that one earlier in the year)...