How Do Clevelanders With An Inferiority Complex to Get Over It? (Washington: hotel, live in)

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by gouldnm

Don't know how recently you've been to Chicago but one thing I've noticed in the last 15-20 years is the proliferation of chains. It's lost a lot of its local flavor. To me Cleveland still has a lot more local flavor. But, yes, the downtown could use a facelift.

I lived there from 1995 to 2015. There are chains, yes, but still lots of "local flavor", IMO. Chicago is certainly big enough for both.

But speaking of chains, it always rankled me when I'd read Cleveland Magazine's "Best Of" issue where readers would vote on their favorites, and the result for "Best Italian" would be Olive Garden.

[gouldnm]

Originally Posted by andrew61

I lived there from 1995 to 2015. There are chains, yes, but still lots of "local flavor", IMO. Chicago is certainly big enough for both.

I'm remembering the way Chicago was in the 1970's and 1980's. How much "local flavor" there is is relative.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by Arcade Fayah

Chicago's one of the worse off cities in the country right now. Highest population loss outside of Detroit metro and crushing debt to go along with it. I'm much more bullish on Cleveland's future than Chicago's. A great comparison I heard recently is Chicago is 2/3 Detroit 1/3 Manhattan.

And what percentage of Cleveland is Manhattan?

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by gouldnm

I'm remembering the way Chicago was in the 1970's and 1980's. How much "local flavor" there is is relative.

It's a different kind of "local flavor" in many cases than it used to be, that's all. When I lived there, for example, some of the oldtimers living around areas like Lincoln Park would lament about how all their favorite restaurants had disappeared. But it wasn't just that chains came in and replaced them (although that was sometimes true), it was that new independents came along that catered to newer residents' (e.g., yuppies, hipsters, etc.) tastes. For example, maybe a longtime diner closed and then a sushi place went in instead... things like that. And sometimes neighborhoods changed hands as new immigrants came in and replaced the older ethnic groups who used to live in them, and different ethnic establishments arose to cater to the new residents' tastes. I certainly didn't see all chains... far from it.

[gouldnm]

Originally Posted by andrew61

I certainly didn't see all chains... far from it.

I never said they were ALL chains. Just a lot more than there used to be.

And it isn’t just about restaurants. I still remember when Marshall Fields got bought out by Macy’s. My family never got over it! The little chocolate mints aren’t even made in Chicago anymore!

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by gouldnm

I still remember when Marshall Fields got bought out by Macy’s. My family never got over it! The little chocolate mints aren’t even made in Chicago anymore!

Most Chicagoans never got over that one. Of course, that kind of takeover took place in other cities, too -- including Cleveland. Higbee's was taken over by Dillard's... and May Company by Kauffman's and later Macy's... and to me it was just never the same afterward.

[gouldnm]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Most Chicagoans never got over that one. Of course, that kind of takeover took place in other cities, too -- including Cleveland. Higbee's was taken over by Dillard's... and May Company by Kauffman's and later Macy's... and to me it was just never the same afterward.

One issue with the glitzier cities is that the more expensive the real estate, the more the local businesses get driven out. Everything has its price.

There’s also the local businesses that expand to keep up—and lose something in the process. My parents remembered Morton’s Steakhouse when it was truly special. Now, you can go to one almost anywhere in the country—but they are nothing like they used to be.

[gouldnm]

I wanted to share this article that appeared in today’s Washington Post because it’s a good example of the angst that people in the so-called “cool” cities feel about growth. While you guys are complaining about “why can’t Cleveland be more like the cooler cities on the coasts”, articles like this are appearing in the newspapers of the “cooler” cities.

This one has a unique perspective since it is about D.C., our nation’s capital. Thus, the growth (and change of culture that comes with it) has implications not only for D.C. but for the entire country:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...=.de62fb50d1a2

[Minervah]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Most Chicagoans never got over that one. Of course, that kind of takeover took place in other cities, too -- including Cleveland. Higbee's was taken over by Dillard's... and May Company by Kauffman's and later Macy's... and to me it was just never the same afterward.

And Portland and Seattle never got over Macy’s taking over Meier and Frank. Unfortunately Macy’s swallowed many great Department stores. Big fish always swallowed smaller ones everywhere. Many people never got over it including me and that also goes for Marshall Fields too even though I hadn’t lived in Chicago for nearly forty years.

[october2007]

Originally Posted by Minervah

And Portland and Seattle never got over Macy’s taking over Meier and Frank. Unfortunately Macy’s swallowed many great Department stores. Big fish always swallowed smaller ones everywhere. Many people never got over it including me and that also goes for Marshall Fields too even though I hadn’t lived in Chicago for nearly forty years.

It was the wonderful Bon Marche in Seattle but you're right. Still miss it and Macy's is inferior in many ways.