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Old 05-18-2018, 08:48 AM
 
3,640 posts, read 3,550,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_j_planning View Post
Prof, your statement that "there has been considerable white-flight from the schools in the last couple of decades" is not supported by the Ohio Department of Education's School Enrollment Data. Here is a "repost" of my original comment on this topic from March 9, 2018. As you can see from the second set of data, Shaker Heights School District has actually experienced the largest increase in white student representation among all districts in metropolitan Cleveland and metropolitan Akron. White student enrollment in Shaker Heights schools has actually increased slightly during the past eight years, not decreased. However, the following school districts have experienced "white flight" during the past eight years, all losing more than half of their white student enrollment during that period:

RICHMOND HEIGHTS (-75%)
GARFIELD HEIGHTS (-66%)
EUCLID (-61%)
SOUTH EUCLID-LYNDHURST (-60%)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
March 9, 2018 post by dr_j_planning

The Ohio Department of Education has released its FALL 2017 Enrollment Counts (Enrollment Data | Ohio Department of Education). The data show that of the 97 public school districts in the seven counties that comprise metropolitan Cleveland and Akron (Cuyahoga, Geauga, Lake, Lorain, Medina, Portage, Summit), 15 have a majority of non-white (Black, Asian, Latino) or mixed-race students* including Shaker Heights.

DISTRICT (%NON-WHITE/MIXED-RACE)
EAST CLEVELAND (100)
WARRENSVILLE HEIGHTS (99)
MAPLE HEIGHTS (98)
RICHMOND HEIGHTS (95)
EUCLID (92)
BEDFORD (91)
CLEVELAND (84)
GARFIELD HEIGHTS (84)
CLEVELAND HEIGHTS-UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS (83)
SOUTH EUCLID-LYNDHURST (82)
PAINESVILLE (79)
LORAIN (77)
AKRON (67)
SHAKER HEIGHTS (59)
CLEARVIEW (58)

ALL NORTHEAST OHIO (36)

However, since the recession (Fall Headcount 2009), Shaker Heights School District has shown the largest decline in non-white/mixed-race representation among its student population: it has dropped from 63% in 2009 to 59% in 2017, a decline of four (4) percentage points. On the contrary, non-white/mixed-race representation across all of Northeast Ohio has increased from 32% to 36% during the same period. There are 13 districts in Northeast Ohio that have experienced double-digit percentage point increases in non-white/mixed-race representation between 2009 and 2017:

DISTRICT (2009 %NON-WHITE/MIXED-RACE -> 2017 %NON-WHITE/MIXED-RACE)
GARFIELD HEIGHTS (56.3% -> 86.3%)
SOUTH EUCLID-LYNDHURST (66.3% -> 82.1%)
WEST GEAUGA (3.8% -> 18.1%)
BROOKLYN (29.7% -> 42.8%)
PAINESVILLE (66.3% -> 78.7%)
WINDHAM (7.3% -> 19.2%)
SOLON (30.8% -> 42.4%)
CUYAHOGA FALLS (7% -> 18.2%)
RICHMOND HEIGHTS (84.7% -> 95.4%)
PARMA (11.7% -> 22.0%)
WILLOUGHBY-EASTLAKE (10.4% -> 20.7%)
WOODRIDGE (27.3% -> 37.3%)
MAYFIELD (25.3% -> 35.3%)


*Please note that the Census does not classify Latinos as a race; rather, the Census treats Hispanic as an ethnicity (i.e. Hispanics could be of any race).
Thanks... That's good to know. I attended Shaker schools too long ago for my personal observations to be relevant. But back then the schools were about 70% white and SH schools were the top of the top locally and state wide. Since that time, I know, there has been white flight -- both from the schools and the city, in general, although most Shaker neighborhoods have held steady. And as I said, because of perception of white flight -- treesinthewind is correct in that there are a lot of Shaker haters out there, some of which I attribute to both jealousy and conservative whites in other burbs who despise Shaker's history of wealth (though not all over -- my family was very Middle Class for example) progressive politics (and great mass transit) and want to see the suburb fail. It's sad but true.

Last edited by TheProf; 05-18-2018 at 09:05 AM..
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:18 AM
 
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Is "white flight" really the right term for Shaker? Isn't Shaker usually used as an example of how to successfully integrate a suburb/school system and avoid white flight?
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:46 PM
 
3,640 posts, read 3,550,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferraris View Post
Is "white flight" really the right term for Shaker? Isn't Shaker usually used as an example of how to successfully integrate a suburb/school system and avoid white flight?
Historically that was the case, but that was a long time ago. It was in the early/mid-1960s when Shaker, along with Oak Park, IL outside Chicago became the first American cities to voluntarily bus children to achieve racial integration in their public schools. This was slightly after the Ludlow experiment where white neighbors welcome Blacks into their neighborhood and school -- Ludlow is a cross border, Cleveland/Shaker, district.

But times have changed. Not saying Shaker isn't still a more progressive suburb -- clearly, it still is -- but there has been a creep of now all-Black neighborhoods/school districts, most notably Lomond which is adjacent to the long Black Moreland District (although Moreland ES is not the Shaker Library, and I'm not sure how the District is divided up between Lomond and Onaway -- somehow I think it's totally in the former).

The good news is that Sussex, my old neighborhood, seems to have held pretty strong although it is considerably more African American than when my family lived there. I also believe that in the wealthier Shaker elementary school districts north of Van Aken many white parents are sending their kids to private schools -- if they still live in Shaker at all. There are a number of vacant houses in Shaker, many of them mansions and mini-mansions in the Boulevard, Malvern and Onaway districts. Some of these have been "rescued" lately, and that's a good thing.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:29 PM
 
6,382 posts, read 7,512,182 times
Reputation: 4312
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
Historically that was the case, but that was a long time ago. It was in the early/mid-1960s when Shaker, along with Oak Park, IL outside Chicago became the first American cities to voluntarily bus children to achieve racial integration in their public schools. This was slightly after the Ludlow experiment where white neighbors welcome Blacks into their neighborhood and school -- Ludlow is a cross border, Cleveland/Shaker, district.

But times have changed. Not saying Shaker isn't still a more progressive suburb -- clearly, it still is -- but there has been a creep of now all-Black neighborhoods/school districts, most notably Lomond which is adjacent to the long Black Moreland District (although Moreland ES is not the Shaker Library, and I'm not sure how the District is divided up between Lomond and Onaway -- somehow I think it's totally in the former).
The Shaker School District Map is available online. There is still an effort to district K-4 students to keep the schools balanced both economically and racially. Moreland goes all the way over to Mercer, on the other side of Shaker. And the Lomond neighborhood is split between Fernway and Lomond Elementary, with Sussex kids also attending Lomond Elementary. The unofficial Winslow Road neighborhood is also split between Fernway and Lomond elementary schools.

Quote:
The good news is that Sussex, my old neighborhood, seems to have held pretty strong although it is considerably more African American than when my family lived there. I also believe that in the wealthier Shaker elementary school districts north of Van Aken many white parents are sending their kids to private schools -- if they still live in Shaker at all. There are a number of vacant houses in Shaker, many of them mansions and mini-mansions in the Boulevard, Malvern and Onaway districts. Some of these have been "rescued" lately, and that's a good thing.
What I was getting at is that the term "white flight" is usually used in a negative context, and I don't think it applies to Shaker. It implies a relatively fast exodus of white people, resulting in vacancies, neglected properties, and lower property values. Shaker is only 8 percentage points blacker than Cuyahoga County as a whole. That's not really white flight in my eyes, it's more so just a town reaching equilibrium with the population of the area. There may be some vacant buildings in Shaker, but you would never know it. The city maintains the lawns and will fine the owners if they don't maintain the exteriors of their homes. They'll demolish buildings if it gets bad enough. It's not like there are decaying neighborhoods of boarded up, burnt out buildings and overgrown lots with shopping carts and tires littered about.

That's just semantics though. My larger concern are the undertones often present on city-data. As if black residents are automatically a bad thing and black students automatically devalue a school district. I now live in Lomond/Sussex, and let me tell you....it is both blacker than anywhere I've ever lived and also far nicer than anywhere I've ever lived. You even slipped in a "The good news is" about Sussex "holding strong" by not yet being majority black. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that, maybe you meant something else. But the OP in this thread is a black family looking to move to Cleveland and the conversation in this thread took a turn towards "It's a little dark in here, isn't it?"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

White flight, in the sudden dramatic demographic change sense, can definitely be a concern just because of the uncertainty and lack of stability it causes in a neighborhood or school district. It's a valid concern in those cases. However, As Dr J pointed out, that's not the case in Shaker Heights.
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:50 AM
 
3,640 posts, read 3,550,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferraris View Post
The Shaker School District Map is available online. There is still an effort to district K-4 students to keep the schools balanced both economically and racially. Moreland goes all the way over to Mercer, on the other side of Shaker. And the Lomond neighborhood is split between Fernway and Lomond Elementary, with Sussex kids also attending Lomond Elementary. The unofficial Winslow Road neighborhood is also split between Fernway and Lomond elementary schools.



What I was getting at is that the term "white flight" is usually used in a negative context, and I don't think it applies to Shaker. It implies a relatively fast exodus of white people, resulting in vacancies, neglected properties, and lower property values. Shaker is only 8 percentage points blacker than Cuyahoga County as a whole. That's not really white flight in my eyes, it's more so just a town reaching equilibrium with the population of the area. There may be some vacant buildings in Shaker, but you would never know it. The city maintains the lawns and will fine the owners if they don't maintain the exteriors of their homes. They'll demolish buildings if it gets bad enough. It's not like there are decaying neighborhoods of boarded up, burnt out buildings and overgrown lots with shopping carts and tires littered about.

That's just semantics though. My larger concern are the undertones often present on city-data. As if black residents are automatically a bad thing and black students automatically devalue a school district. I now live in Lomond/Sussex, and let me tell you....it is both blacker than anywhere I've ever lived and also far nicer than anywhere I've ever lived. You even slipped in a "The good news is" about Sussex "holding strong" by not yet being majority black. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that, maybe you meant something else. But the OP in this thread is a black family looking to move to Cleveland and the conversation in this thread took a turn towards "It's a little dark in here, isn't it?"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

White flight, in the sudden dramatic demographic change sense, can definitely be a concern just because of the uncertainty and lack of stability it causes in a neighborhood or school district. It's a valid concern in those cases. However, As Dr J pointed out, that's not the case in Shaker Heights.
OK, I guess we have differences in our definitions of "white flight." I didn't necessarily know about any decay connected to it; it's just that some neighborhoods turn from white to black when 'too many' blacks move start moving in. Shaker for decades sought to prevent this by banning For Sale signs on lawns, but some time ago, that law was repealed. Shaker also has stringent standards to prevent outward blight, for if it happens, the property owner faces stiff fines and, I believe, forfeiture if blight gets to a certain point. That's why many vacant homes in Shaker go undetected for lawns must remain cut and hedges trimmed, among other things. Shaker also doesn't allow plywood on windows or doors if I'm not mistaken. unless the house is under renovation. Of course Shaker's standards apply even if the home is occupied -- better not let that lawn get too long or cracking paint go untreated or you will face fines. Particularly watch those weeds sprouting in driveway or sidewalk cracks... Nowhere in Shaker, even in poorer or African American neighborhoods, will you see property decay, not even in the old Moreland District west of Lee and south of Chagrin.
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,567 posts, read 877,037 times
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Originally Posted by FMLYof4 View Post
Hi
We are a young professional family moving from the DC metro specifically Northern VA. I’m a physician and have an interview at Case Western Cleveland hospital, spouse will telework. We are a young, outgoing black family. Kids are 4 and 5. Eldest was just diagnosed with ADHD. Before the move we planned on moving the kids from private school into the top notch Fairfax County school system. The thought was that public schools would offer more assistance with ADHD challenges.
Areas we are considering: Solon, Glenwillow, Beachwood: schools and safety are top priority. Walkability isn’t a huge factor but parks and shopping within a 10-15 minute drive would be ideal. Diversity is important too but schools have to come first. Would we feel comfortable in these areas? What would my commute look like? Any suggestions regarding ADHD and long distance moves also appreciated as we are newly navigating this diagnosis.
How's your search coming along?
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:57 PM
 
164 posts, read 144,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferraris View Post
The Shaker School District Map is available online. There is still an effort to district K-4 students to keep the schools balanced both economically and racially. Moreland goes all the way over to Mercer, on the other side of Shaker. And the Lomond neighborhood is split between Fernway and Lomond Elementary, with Sussex kids also attending Lomond Elementary. The unofficial Winslow Road neighborhood is also split between Fernway and Lomond elementary schools.



What I was getting at is that the term "white flight" is usually used in a negative context, and I don't think it applies to Shaker. It implies a relatively fast exodus of white people, resulting in vacancies, neglected properties, and lower property values. Shaker is only 8 percentage points blacker than Cuyahoga County as a whole. That's not really white flight in my eyes, it's more so just a town reaching equilibrium with the population of the area. There may be some vacant buildings in Shaker, but you would never know it. The city maintains the lawns and will fine the owners if they don't maintain the exteriors of their homes. They'll demolish buildings if it gets bad enough. It's not like there are decaying neighborhoods of boarded up, burnt out buildings and overgrown lots with shopping carts and tires littered about.

That's just semantics though. My larger concern are the undertones often present on city-data. As if black residents are automatically a bad thing and black students automatically devalue a school district. I now live in Lomond/Sussex, and let me tell you....it is both blacker than anywhere I've ever lived and also far nicer than anywhere I've ever lived. You even slipped in a "The good news is" about Sussex "holding strong" by not yet being majority black. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that, maybe you meant something else. But the OP in this thread is a black family looking to move to Cleveland and the conversation in this thread took a turn towards "It's a little dark in here, isn't it?"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

White flight, in the sudden dramatic demographic change sense, can definitely be a concern just because of the uncertainty and lack of stability it causes in a neighborhood or school district. It's a valid concern in those cases. However, As Dr J pointed out, that's not the case in Shaker Heights.
Ferraris, your assessment that "white flight" implies sudden, dramatic demographic change within a community is central here and an excellent clarification. As the black community of Cleveland's east side has suburbanized, some school districts experienced more rapid racial change than others. In 1980, there were only three districts with a majority black student body in Metro Cleveland/Akron (Cleveland, East Cleveland and Warrensville Heights). Today there are 10 such districts, including Bedford, Cleveland Heights-University Heights, Euclid, Garfield Heights, Maple Heights, Richmond Heights, and South Euclid-Lyndhurst. Richmond Heights and South Euclid-Lyndhurst were each less than one percent black in 1980; Euclid, Garfield Heights, and Maple Heights were each less than 10 percent black in 1980. These districts have "flipped" racially and serve as the best examples of white flight in Northeast Ohio due to the pace of racial change. If you look behind the numbers, such communities exhibit common characteristics: cheaply built and aging housing stock, declining employment due to fewer industrial and manufacturing jobs, obsolete retail strips and centers now largely shuttered and a working class lifestyle the children and grandchildren either could not or would not inherit. Shaker Heights and Cleveland Heights-University Heights have exhibited much more stable demographic patterns because of residents' higher educational attainment and professional employment base, higher quality and historically/architecturally significant housing stock, larger percentage of locally-owned businesses and stronger commitment to their respective communities.

The OP indicates their family values school quality, diversity and commuter convenience. While the Heights have long been destinations for professional black families seeking higher quality housing, schools and convenience in a diverse community, many other suburban districts now offer the same or better, including Beachwood, Mayfield, Orange, Solon, Twinsburg and Willoughby. The OP's family has many options and will hopefully explore each thoroughly before they make a decision.
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