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It looks like the nearest spot for the WFL trains to reverse north of the Flats East Bank station is after going up and crossing the highway then arcing east until nearly at the West 3rd station. Perhaps there should be crossovers near the Flats East Bank station so there can be an immediate reversal so that WFL lines can run up until at least Flats East Bank station late with more efficiency.
Good idea. At least, then, trains would not have run, for over a mile, to the South Harbor (Muny Lot) terminal with no passengers generating utilizing more electricity and useless man hours.
Good idea. At least, then, trains would not have run, for over a mile, to the South Harbor (Muny Lot) terminal with no passengers generating utilizing more electricity and useless man hours.
Right, which means that you can stretch the same operating costs to get more and longer coverage while also making better use of rolling stock and track that you've already sunk cost into. Essentially, until the lakefront is more developed (i.e. Burke is shutdown and converted to a dense mixed use district and parkspace), better pedestrian connections from downtown proper to the waterfront are built, and/or the Amtrak station actually gets significantly more service, running the lakefront parts of the WFL for any time outside of daylight hours and stadium / museum events isn't very efficient. There's ample space to build a simple diamond crossover just south of the Flats East Bank station and before the grade crossing at Old River Road as well as quite a bit of development and existing development to support such.
I think in terms of short-term, inexpensive actual infrastructure capital investments, that's one of the best returns on investment that RTA has available and can be done pretty painlessly and very quickly if planned well. It also adds some redundancy for potential track work as it allows switching in another point in the system in case one track needs to go down. After that, it's the investment in upping operating hours for that stretch and schedule frequency whose cost has now been lowered from creating that diamond crossover.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 06-01-2019 at 02:55 PM..
Right, which means that you can stretch the same operating costs to get more and longer coverage while also making better use of rolling stock and track that you've already sunk cost into. Essentially, until the lakefront is more developed (i.e. Burke is shutdown and converted to a dense mixed use district and parkspace), better pedestrian connections from downtown proper to the waterfront are built, and/or the Amtrak station actually gets significantly more service, running the lakefront parts of the WFL for any time outside of daylight hours and stadium / museum events isn't very efficient. There's ample space to build a simple diamond crossover just south of the Flats East Bank station and before the grade crossing at Old River Road as well as quite a bit of development and existing development to support such.
I think in terms of short-term, inexpensive actual infrastructure capital investments, that's one of the best returns on investment that RTA has available and can be done pretty painlessly and very quickly if planned well. It also adds some redundancy for potential track work as it allows switching in another point in the system in case one track needs to go down. After that, it's the investment in upping operating hours for that stretch and schedule frequency whose cost has now been lowered from creating that diamond crossover.
I'm with you on this. In the 1980s when the Flats was just taking off big time as a major restaurant/entertainment destination, the initial talk was for a train or a "Rapid to the Flats." That's how the whole WFL got started. Jeff Jacobs, son of one of the Indians owners who, of course, were the catalysts behind Jacobs Field, had just opened Shooters and the Flats West Bank, and had proposed running a diesel rapid-like car from Tower City down to the Flats over a single track. Of course, a few years later, the newly-formed Bicentennial Committee for Cleveland, targeting the year 1996, seized on the plan and expanded it to the, now, WFL to also serve lakefront, the stadium and the soon-to-open Rock Hall, as a so-called Legacy Project.
The potential for a long-needed, long-talked-about multi-modal transportation center just west of E. 9th serving, Greyhound/Megabus, etc., Amtrak and the WFL, could stimulate all-day service for the entire line. Also it is waaaayy overdue that some development be built at/near the MUNY Lot terminal... It's a crime and a civic failure that nothing but crumbling surface parking exists in this high-potential location facing Lake Erie. There was, in the late 1990s, plans call Davenport Bluffs (noting Davenport Ave just above) that would have included high-rise apts/condos and retail... of course it failed, and in its place we get the totally people-unfriendly FBI HQ (a fortress) and Channel 3s main studio.... Talk about wasted potential...
I'm with you on this. In the 1980s when the Flats was just taking off big time as a major restaurant/entertainment destination, the initial talk was for a train or a "Rapid to the Flats." That's how the whole WFL got started. Jeff Jacobs, son of one of the Indians owners who, of course, were the catalysts behind Jacobs Field, had just opened Shooters and the Flats West Bank, and had proposed running a diesel rapid-like car from Tower City down to the Flats over a single track. Of course, a few years later, the newly-formed Bicentennial Committee for Cleveland, targeting the year 1996, seized on the plan and expanded it to the, now, WFL to also serve lakefront, the stadium and the soon-to-open Rock Hall, as a so-called Legacy Project.
The potential for a long-needed, long-talked-about multi-modal transportation center just west of E. 9th serving, Greyhound/Megabus, etc., Amtrak and the WFL, could stimulate all-day service for the entire line. Also it is waaaayy overdue that some development be built at/near the MUNY Lot terminal... It's a crime and a civic failure that nothing but crumbling surface parking exists in this high-potential location facing Lake Erie. There was, in the late 1990s, plans call Davenport Bluffs (noting Davenport Ave just above) that would have included high-rise apts/condos and retail... of course it failed, and in its place we get the totally people-unfriendly FBI HQ (a fortress) and Channel 3s main studio.... Talk about wasted potential...
So... what are any actionable steps that can be done? Is there even some kind of suggestion box for RTA? Or is it wait for an eccentric billionaire to come in?
So... what are any actionable steps that can be done?
Plenty. As you note, build a crossover/turn-around south of the FEB station to allow evening Flats-to-TC service.
Would RTA ever do this?
Long Answer: Consider this, in the 44 years of RTA's existence, they made only 3 substantive improvements to rail (which to most cities would be miniscule):
-- building the 2.2 mile WFL extension
-- redesigning Tower City, and
-- relocating Euclid-E.120 station to Little Italy/UC (spawning, finally, tons of TOD)...
... and btw, ALL 3 of those positive innovations materialized via outside forces:
-- The Bicentennial Committee pushed the WFL
-- The Ratner family's upgrading Union Station to TC lead to the Rapid station's consolidation/redesign
-- Chris Ronayne/UCI pushed for the Little Italy/Red Line station relocation (after RTA proposed closing the station to, ... wait for it... save money, ... of course!)
Short Answer (based on the above)... No...
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Is there even some kind of suggestion box for RTA?
I'm sure there is. Do they pay attention to it? (I'll let you answer that one for yourself).
The only survey they're interested in now is whether RTA should cut service, even more, to even barer bones than it is now -- including eliminating the WFL, (just in time for Phase 3 of FEB... makes sense, right?)... In other words, RTA only surveys the public when the Agency is about to do what it does best: cut service and save money. They seem to care less about quality service and have ZERO vision for the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Or is it wait for an eccentric billionaire to come in?
Sorry, the last filthy rich/pro transit types Cleveland had were the Van Sweringen brothers, and they've been dead for 85 years!
Do civic minded rich people in Cleveland still exist? It seems they have all abandoned the city for elsewhere. Perhaps I'm just unaware, not currently living in Cleveland. Here in Boston New Balance self-funded a commuter rail station in my neighborhood. Has anything similar happened in Cleveland? Why don't CLE companies understand that a healthy city benefits everyone?
Do civic minded rich people in Cleveland still exist? It seems they have all abandoned the city for elsewhere. Perhaps I'm just unaware, not currently living in Cleveland. Here in Boston New Balance self-funded a commuter rail station in my neighborhood. Has anything similar happened in Cleveland? Why don't CLE companies understand that a healthy city benefits everyone?
Yea, something like a Dan Gilbert of Detroit, but in Cleveland would be amazing. Who are the current Northeast Ohio billionaires by the by?
Plenty. As you note, build a crossover/turn-around south of the FEB station to allow evening Flats-to-TC service.
Would RTA ever do this?
Long Answer: Consider this, in the 44 years of RTA's existence, they made only 3 substantive improvements to rail (which to most cities would be miniscule):
-- building the 2.2 mile WFL extension
-- redesigning Tower City, and
-- relocating Euclid-E.120 station to Little Italy/UC (spawning, finally, tons of TOD)...
... and btw, ALL 3 of those positive innovations materialized via outside forces:
-- The Bicentennial Committee pushed the WFL
-- The Ratner family's upgrading Union Station to TC lead to the Rapid station's consolidation/redesign
-- Chris Ronayne/UCI pushed for the Little Italy/Red Line station relocation (after RTA proposed closing the station to, ... wait for it... save money, ... of course!)
Short Answer (based on the above)... No...
I'm sure there is. Do they pay attention to it? (I'll let you answer that one for yourself).
The only survey they're interested in now is whether RTA should cut service, even more, to even barer bones than it is now -- including eliminating the WFL, (just in time for Phase 3 of FEB... makes sense, right?)... In other words, RTA only surveys the public when the Agency is about to do what it does best: cut service and save money. They seem to care less about quality service and have ZERO vision for the future.
Sorry, the last filthy rich/pro transit types Cleveland had were the Van Sweringen brothers, and they've been dead for 85 years!
Well, that's unfortunate. I wonder what are the chances that RTA somehow never even thought about making a crossover south of the Flats East Bank station. It seems like a no-brainer and RTA is technically in the business of transit.
It was like that good old days: RTA actually ran Waterfront Line trains ... all evening until the usual 12:15a schedule!! Problem is, the agency did an absolutely horrible job of publicizing it. Sure it was generally known, largely through Cleveland.com RTA ran the entire system free celebrating the Cuyahoga River fire anniversary, but I saw nothing about extending Waterfront Line service into jam-packed Flats East Bank last night.
Yet and still, a number of people who were planning to ride the Trolley back to the Square, hopped WFL trains only because we, stunned, were seeing them running -- and not just that goofy every half-hour frequency to one line, but every 15 minutes with trains serving BOTH lines. We hopped one of the last trains out, and a bunch of folks got on at Flats East Bank and a few at Settlers Landing; most transferred to the Red Line but some of us continued east on the Blue Line (we parked at the excellent new Van Aken District). It worked like a charm. The train was quick and riders were happy...
... Why is this so hard!? Trolley service had long ended, around 11p, and, as often the case with heavy Flats traffic, were caught in traffic down to/up out of the Flats. RTA has done everything to hurt this rail line, it's NOT that people just don't want to use it. And even yesterday, if RTA had only publicized the trains were running and running late (like, maybe, on the RTA website... perhaps), people would have flocked to the trains... Many were frantically calling Uber/Lyft and those ride-share cars were also lined up stuck in traffic...
It's not rocket science folks. We have the gift of a rail line directly serving the most popular, dense, tight, gridlocked entertainment in Ohio... USE IT!!
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