Cleveland Hts or Shaker Hts?

[formerlyofpainesville]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Sadly, Painesville leaders became obsessed with "urban renewal" just before Congress passed the historic preservation tax credit bill. "Urban renewal" wouldn't have been such a disaster if the architects and leaders had any understanding of urban architecture. They thought that a pedestrian-challenged mall was the way to go; it was a disaster (the New Market Mall).

Cities like Chagrin Falls and Willoughby dodged the "urban renewal" bullet and are much more charming in their old commercial districts, while only a couple disjointed blocks survived in Painesville, which used to have a much more dynamic downtown than either of those cities.

yes, I know that disaster well. Those were my "wonder years." But so many people were on board with the urban renewal scheme. For years I've been blaming the former city manager at the time, Dale Helsel. His son was in my class in Jr. High school and we used to quiz him at lunch about WTF is going on with downtown. By the time the project (New Market Mall, etc) was "shovel-ready," his family had left Painesville and moved on to another city (Middletown, Ohio). I think in Painesville's case they were desperate to stop the bleeding downtown as nearby Mentor was rapidly suburbanizing and the Great Lakes Mall was the future. It seems so funny to recall the ascendance of the mega-mall now since the notion is largely passé (although as far as I know the Great Lakes Mall is still fairly healthy, despite the departure of Sears). You have to remember, for most of it's history, until the 1950's, Painesville was THE place to shop and the commercial center for not just the eastern half of Lake County but for miles beyond. That's why it's downfall seemed particularly dramantic. If you want some laughs check out these articles (come to think of it, it's not that funny) (although I don't think it's fair to compare Painesville to Chagrin Falls, the latter much smaller, largely white and always considered very upscale). Last photo: Painesville in the early 50's. I remember when this was posted on the Downtown Painesville Organization facebook page a number of years ago, and a young man commented incredulously that this picture of a bustling Main St. couldn't possibly be Painesville--lol

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by formerlyofpainesville

yes, I know that disaster well. Those were my "wonder years." But so many people were on board with the urban renewal scheme. For years I've been blaming the former city manager at the time, Dale Helsel. His son was in my class in Jr. High school and we used to quiz him at lunch about WTF is going on with downtown. By the time the project (New Market Mall, etc) was "shovel-ready," his family had left Painesville and moved on to another city (Middletown, Ohio). I think in Painesville's case they were desperate to stop the bleeding downtown as nearby Mentor was rapidly suburbanizing and the Great Lakes Mall was the future. It seems so funny to recall the ascendance of the mega-mall now since the notion is largely passé (although as far as I know the Great Lakes Mall is still fairly healthy, despite the departure of Sears). You have to remember, for most of it's history, until the 1950's, Painesville was THE place to shop and the commercial center for not just the eastern half of Lake County but for miles beyond. That's why it's downfall seemed particularly dramantic. If you want some laughs check out these articles (come to think of it, it's not that funny) (although I don't think it's fair to compare Painesville to Chagrin Falls, the latter much smaller, largely white and always considered very upscale). Last photo: Painesville in the early 50's. I remember when this was posted on the Downtown Painesville Organization facebook page a number of years ago, and a young man commented incredulously that this picture of a bustling Main St. couldn't possibly be Painesville--lol

The last picture in those great links was of the north side of Main St. between St. Clair St. and South State St. New Market Mall didn't impact those buildings, which were amazingly well built and in good shape; they would have been perfect candidates for historic revitalization projects.

They were razed to make way for a Mr. Wiggs discount store in the late 1970s (?). It also was a retail disaster and eventually converted to the home of the Lake County social welfare agencies.

Mr. Wiggs (Ohio) - Groceteria.com

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/11...5512400/<br />

Here's picture of that same block today, with a large parking lot fronting Main Street, and the Lake County Family and Jobs Services building in the architecturally enhanced former Mr. Wiggs/Hecks discount store.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en...px8wCnoECAUQBg

This actually was a much better save than New Market, but it still gutted much of the city's downtown charm.

This discussion of Painesville is oft-topic except for one observation. Shaker Hts. dodged some big bullets by delaying the redevelopment of Van Aken and now Shaker Square (yes, I know it's in Cleveland, but it's still integral to SH) until developers/city planners finally figured out how to implement workable mixed use redevelopments. Painesville, time after time, was an example of what not to do. I'm certain you remember the large, multi-story hotel built on East Main although there was no demand for it; it now has been razed and is a great empty lot overlooking the Grand River Valley, but mostly Painesville's large Recreation Park. It's almost laughable, if not so sad, about how badly Painesville botched its redevelopment efforts. One of northeast Ohio's best legacy downtown areas was greatly destroyed.

https://www.painesville.com/vertical...7BCBC7A%7D.PDF

[dr_j_planning]

Originally Posted by sheena12

We like both, but we really want to avoid anyplace "sketchy".

There is a part of Cleveland Hts. That looks good online. It has a website, and a lose homeowners association. Forest Hill. (s)

I read that while the area began as a rather upscale community founded by one of the Rockefellers, that in recent years, the area has been bought up by an individual who is a neighborhood bully, of sorts. Also that some of it (not sure of the part) is in East Cleveland schools.

Is it all bad?

What parts of Cleveland Hts. are good? We also like Shaker and University Hts.

Any feedback would be helpful. We are not in a hurry. We like where we live, but we are increasingly spending more time in Cleveland.
We want a residential, but urban area

If there are other areas that are similar, we would like to learn more.

OP, Cleveland Heights may be considered two cities in one and moving in opposite demographic and socio-economic directions. The line is a bit serpentine, but generally the more desirable areas are as follows:

WEST OF COVENTRY ROAD: South of Mayfield Road

BETWEEN COVENTRY AND LEE ROADS: South of Mayfield/Superior Roads

BETWEEN LEE AND TAYLOR ROADS: Along and South of Dellwood Road

EAST OF TAYLOR ROAD: South of Cedar Road

Shaker Heights is more affluent than Cleveland Heights or University Heights. Although smaller in population (28,000 versus 44,000), Shaker Heights generates 2.5 times the number of single-family residence transactions over $300,000 annually compared with Cleveland Heights. The neighborhoods west and south of Van Aken Boulevard are generally perceived as least desirable (Ludlow, Moreland, Lomond, Sussex), but Ludlow has experienced some revitalization and tax-abated new construction in recent years; aggressive demolition in Moreland has created vacant lots and opportunities for tax-abated new construction; and Sussex (already the most affluent of these four neighborhoods with the highest-quality housing) has benefited from the new Van Aken District and capital infrastructure improvements.

University Heights is generally stable in all areas, but only a few transactions exceed $300,000 annually. People generally look/move elsewhere when they want more upscale housing. There is a significant Orthodox Jewish community in the vicinity of the Orthodox institutions along Green Road.

In general, the Heights (CH, SH, UH) continue to attract new residents because of their strong and architecturally significant housing stock and tightly-woven community fabric. These are progressive, diverse communities that embrace what makes them unique. They have not experienced the decline in desirability that continues to stress more working-class suburbs with lower-grade housing both to the north (Euclid, Richmond Heights, South Euclid) and the south (Garfield Heights, Maple Heights, Bedford Heights).

Happy to answer further questions; Happy Thanksgiving!

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by dr_j_planning

BETWEEN COVENTRY AND LEE ROADS: South of Mayfield/Superior Roads

BETWEEN LEE AND TAYLOR ROADS: Along and South of Dellwood Road

I'm no CH buff, but from my bit of shopping for homes and rentals last year, I would extend the area between Lee and Taylor up to Cain Park (Superior Road) instead of Dellwood. The only downside to that area that I can think of is the proximity to the high school which might be a nuisance.

It's definitely a bit more modest in that area, but I wouldn't call it undesirable either.

[formerlyofpainesville]

Originally Posted by WRnative

The last picture in those great links was of the north side of Main St. between St. Clair St. and South State St. New Market Mall didn't impact those buildings, which were amazingly well built and in good shape; they would have been perfect candidates for historic revitalization projects.

They were razed to make way for a Mr. Wiggs discount store in the late 1970s (?). It also was a retail disaster and eventually converted to the home of the Lake County social welfare agencies.

Mr. Wiggs (Ohio) - Groceteria.com

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/11...5512400/<br />

Here's picture of that same block today, with a large parking lot fronting Main Street, and the Lake County Family and Jobs Services building in the architecturally enhanced former Mr. Wiggs/Hecks discount store.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en...px8wCnoECAUQBg

This actually was a much better save than New Market, but it still gutted much of the city's downtown charm.

This discussion of Painesville is oft-topic except for one observation. Shaker Hts. dodged some big bullets by delaying the redevelopment of Van Aken and now Shaker Square (yes, I know it's in Cleveland, but it's still integral to SH) until developers/city planners finally figured out how to implement workable mixed use redevelopments. Painesville, time after time, was an example of what not to do. I'm certain you remember the large, multi-story hotel built on East Main although there was no demand for it; it now has been razed and is a great empty lot overlooking the Grand River Valley, but mostly Painesville's large Recreation Park. It's almost laughable, if not so sad, about how badly Painesville botched its redevelopment efforts. One of northeast Ohio's best legacy downtown areas was greatly destroyed.

https://www.painesville.com/vertical...7BCBC7A%7D.PDF

yeah, Painesville really did get messed up. But doesn't the streetscaping look nice? And on the brighter side, the new Lake County Admin building next to the Methodist Church is kind of impressive so far (never mind that they demolished a historic building to make room for it. I recall it as the old Sears store. It looked like a relic from the Depression lol--We couldn't afford fancy Carlisle's across the park)

https://www.news-herald.com/news/lak...0942ef5f4.html

and...the old Citizens Savings building is set to become a micro-brewery! Good news for those Lake Erie College students and their parents--now a "respectable" place to get drunk instead of Nemeth's!

https://www.news-herald.com/news/ohi...a859966f9.html

but here's the pièce de résistance- although I'm not holding my breath that this project will be shovel ready any time soon. But hope springs eternal. As someone commented on facebook after reading this article, (paraphrasing) "Three words: New Market Mall"

https://www.crainscleveland.com/arti...l-neighborhood

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by formerlyofpainesville

https://www.crainscleveland.com/arti...l-neighborhood

It's sad that Painesville is considering another rental property for the former hospital site. Originally, the plan was for a nice townhouse neighborhood. And the apartment project sounds nothing like the mixed-use Van Aken district redevelopment. Thanks for posting the link.

The Crain's article fails to mention that much of city's population growth resulted from large apartment complexes on annexed land connected to Heisley Road in Mentor by the heavily developed retail neighborhood off Diamond Centre Drive in Mentor, and connected to Jackson St. in Painesville by the new Brookstone Blvd. and Shamrock Blvd.

Such apartments near downtown would fatally change even more the character of the city IMO.