Cleveland public transportation??? (Euclid, Shaker Heights, East Cleveland: university, living, prices)

[TheProf]

I agree with the sentiment here, public transit in Cleveland is very good for the city's size and Midwestern location. And although the city has pockets of density, often around heavy transit-served areas: Downtown, Shaker Square, Little Italy, Ohio City, Coventry, Edgewater, etc., Cleveland is over all a moderate density city, which means rush hour traffic jams are much lighter than most similar-sized cities (and forget about Detroit which is much larger, spread out and has no rapid rail) -- this means that buses, like the 3 line (5 branch) rail rapid transit system, move quicker than in most cities. And Cleveland also has extensive express buses and "Flyers" -- rush hour buses that ride the freeways and serve free park 'n ride lots (much like those along the outer rapid transit lines). The quality of public transit as a hub (the 3 rail lines, most bus lines and the new, soon to be finished bus rapid transit line -- which will serve the core east side area, along with Cleveland State U and Cleveland Clinic and terminate at the Stokes/Windermere rapid transit terminal), is helping cause more and more people to live downtown; many w/o cars. Downtown also has loop buses and a new-ish free "Trolley" system -- with small buses that look like old-time-y streetcars. Downtown Cleveland has the 2nd largest (10,000+) and fastest growing downtown population in the Midwest outside of Chicago (everything is measured by Chi-town, isn't it?). There are now 2 downtown grocery stores, tons of restaurants and clubs and a lot more foot traffic than in the past, esp on Friday and Saturday nights, where the Warehouse District and Gateway seem like Chicago Loop/River North type areas... Downtown next needs to increase retail outside of Tower City and make it more diverse, esp on the streets – the city needs a couple large anchor stores; unfortunately its last big one, Higbees, closed in 2000 and hasn’t been replaced – but here is promising movement.

The Flats East Bank has been gutted and is in process of being rebuilt into a mixed use high-end condo, retail, movie and grocery store area, all served directly by the Blue and Green (Waterfront Line) rapid rail transit line. This will boost downtown living and transit convenience even more.

Ohio City, which is just across the Cuyahoga River is walkable and served by tons of buses and the Red Line rapid transit and has tons of apartments and many new condos -- it kind of seems like an extension of downtown.

One major transit advantage is the Airport branch of the Red Line rapid transit, which connects with all lines, downtown and gets you to Hopkins Int'l airport from downtown in just over 20 minutes.

Once agian, all this, transit-wise, is rather unusual for a city of Cleveland size, density and Midwestern location, but it's a HUGE advantage over our neighbors.

[Traveler87]

Don't forget about the Euclid Corridor Project, not only helping Public Transportation, but it is re-doing a lot of the streetscape, and most of the building fronts. Also, a 20 story highrise condo is in the works, 515 Euclid Tower.

[andrew61]

Iraqvet,

When I lived in the Cleveland area I used public transportation to get to and from my 9-5 job downtown, and found it very convenient for that (especially in snowy winter weather). To do virtually anything else, however, I drove my car.

Now, it is true that Cleveland has better public transit than most other mid-sized cities in the American heartland. But, having lived in the Cleveland area for 34 years both with and without a car, I found that going carless carries a bit more of a stigma than in, say, NYC or Chicago.

In Cleveland, if you don't own a car, most people will assume either (1) you're poor, (2) you had your license revoked due to DUI or some such, or (3) you have a medical condition which precludes driving. Now, maybe things have changed somewhat in the thirteen years that I've been away, but when I lived in Cleveland that's how it was.

It's certainly true that, if you choose your neighborhood carefully, you can likely live in a place where you can get to/from work and do your basic errands without a car. But -- big but -- your lifestyle is going to be rather limited without one.

The people you're likely to meet -- those whom you want to socialize with and do things with -- are probably going to live all over the metro area, and the things they want to do/places they want to go are likely going to be just as scattered. To maintain a truly active social life, therefore, will mean being able to get around quickly and efficiently, everywhere from Strongsville to Chagrin Falls. And, in Cleveland, that likely means driving.

Now, I know that runs contrary to what other people are telling you... so let the flaming begin.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by Traveler87

Don't forget about the Euclid Corridor Project, not only helping Public Transportation, but it is re-doing a lot of the streetscape, and most of the building fronts. Also, a 20 story high-rise condo is in the works, 515 Euclid Tower.

I didn't forget, I just referred to it as bus rapid transit rather than the more formalized ECP name. I preferred the subway up Euclid that the City couldn't get done, but ECP is generating its own excitement for the Euclid corridor to the tune of millions of $$s in TOD development as you note. Just goes to show you another Cleveland innovation in transit, like the Airport rapid and HRT and LRT sharing the same tracks... btw, there is a private group working with RTA on a Lorain County/West Shore commuter rail proposal from downtown, or the west side Red Line via Lakewood & Rocky River. It just keeps getting better.

[TheProf]

Andrew61, I don't complete agree with you, but I also know a number of people who feel the way you describe some in looking funny at car-less people. But I think that's changing little -by-little, esp with younger generations and esp with those who are living downtown, closer to downtown or directly on (w/in walking distance) of a rapid line or 24-hour bus line. I think we’ve had this discussion before and I’ll repeat what I told you before: comparing Cleveland to New York or Chicago simply isn’t fair because of huge size and density factors. That said, because of the lesser density and shorter travel distances required in Cleveland, even out to the burbs/shopping, bus speed and reliability is superior in Cleveland and connect well with outer Rapid stations, particularly to areas in the more crowded yet compact Heights suburbs (ie, Coventry, Cedar Lee or Beachwood Place, or Eton).

Interestingly, UrbanOhio.com had this discussion recently: Completely car-free lifestyle?

In it, they cited a very good article in a recent Cleveland Magazine (AKA, the Cleveland Yuppie Handbook) where a writer went Cold Turkey without a car. His observations were realistic and insightful; check it out:

A Car Free Life | Article Archives | Arts & Entertainemnt | Cleveland Magazine Cleveland,Rating the Suburbs,Cleveland Events,Cleveland Restaurants,top cleveland suburbs,Events, Restaurants,Dining,Cleveland Dining,Lola Restaurant,Best Cleveland Restau

[BelieveInCleve]

Andrew61 made some good points but is only half way right.

Like I said, it is entirely possible to get by in Cleveland without a car, but it really depends on what neighborhood you live in. If you can use the rapid, buses, and a bike it should be pretty easy. However in most areas you should have a car. My suggestion is to use the Public Transportation as long as its convenient and keep a car, because you will probably need it a lot of times.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Andrew61, I don't complete agree with you, but I also know a number of people who feel the way you describe some in looking funny at car-less people. But I think that's changing little -by-little, esp with younger generations and esp with those who are living downtown, closer to downtown or directly on (w/in walking distance) of a rapid line or 24-hour bus line. I think we’ve had this discussion before and I’ll repeat what I told you before: comparing Cleveland to New York or Chicago simply isn’t fair because of huge size and density factors. That said, because of the lesser density and shorter travel distances required in Cleveland, even out to the burbs/shopping, bus speed and reliability is superior in Cleveland and connect well with outer Rapid stations, particularly to areas in the more crowded yet compact Heights suburbs (ie, Coventry, Cedar Lee or Beachwood Place, or Eton).

Interestingly, UrbanOhio.com had this discussion recently: Completely car-free lifestyle?

In it, they cited a very good article in a recent Cleveland Magazine (AKA, the Cleveland Yuppie Handbook) where a writer went Cold Turkey without a car. His observations were realistic and insightful; check it out:

A Car Free Life | Article Archives | Arts & Entertainemnt | Cleveland Magazine Cleveland,Rating the Suburbs,Cleveland Events,Cleveland Restaurants,top cleveland suburbs,Events, Restaurants,Dining,Cleveland Dining,Lola Restaurant,Best Cleveland Restau

Thanks for the links. Very good reading.

A number of posters on the UrbanOhio discussion thread appeared to corroborate the very points I was making, however... in particular that it's quite difficult to maintain an active social life in the Cleveland area while going carfree. They complained of having to bum rides from others frequently, and how "humiliating" that felt.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by Cle440

Andrew61 made some good points but is only half way right.

Like I said, it is entirely possible to get by in Cleveland without a car, but it really depends on what neighborhood you live in. If you can use the rapid, buses, and a bike it should be pretty easy. However in most areas you should have a car. My suggestion is to use the Public Transportation as long as its convenient and keep a car, because you will probably need it a lot of times.

A bike would certainly be helpful... but I think biking would be rather impractical during the cold, snowy winter months.

I did concede that it's quite possible to "get by" without a car in Cleveland... but who wants to merely "get by"? There's a vast difference between "getting by" and "thriving".

I'd agree with your suggestion to use public transit whenever practical, but also to keep a car and be willing to use it when the situation calls for it.

[BelieveInCleve]

In the Car Free in Cleveland booklet that I have it says that you can ride your bike year round in Cleveland. If you think about it, that is almost true. I understand what your saying with the winters, but its not that bad. There is no snow at all from April-September, so thats 7 months straight. Also most the time there is no snow in October, and November, and sometimes even December gets hardly any. You only really have to worry about January-March, and even then most of the roads will be plowed. The only times you could use one at all is if we get a big snowstorm like we did this winter.

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I didn't forget, I just referred to it as bus rapid transit rather than the more formalized ECP name. I preferred the subway up Euclid that the City couldn't get done, but ECP is generating its own excitement for the Euclid corridor to the tune of millions of $$s in TOD development as you note. Just goes to show you another Cleveland innovation in transit, like the Airport rapid and HRT and LRT sharing the same tracks... btw, there is a private group working with RTA on a Lorain County/West Shore commuter rail proposal from downtown, or the west side Red Line via Lakewood & Rocky River. It just keeps getting better.

Isn't it though...... Cleveland was the first city to have a rapid transit link its airport to its downtown. Our transit system is only getting better. Now Euclid is finished it will connect Cleveland to Univesity Hospitals, and will kickstart Cleveland's Lakefront Plan!