Cleveland Development Discussions (Columbus, Ohio City: crime rate, pharmacists, robbery)

[ohioaninsc]

Originally Posted by TheProf

It's one thing for a company, preferably a smaller one, to prefer a suburban office and decide to build an office there -- personally, I prefer downtown because of its density of activities and retail AND its convenience by both public transportation and car (freeways to many suburban points, including Solon, and others)... I really don't know what that other poster is talking about.

But what I hate most is the constant poaching of substantial downtown businesses such as Medical Mutual or Eaton. So we weaken downtown while contributing to urban sprawl. This really sucks imho.

Make downtown cheaper then...the cost to rent office space is far less expensive in the suburbs....get rid of paid parking downtown too...Americans are autocentric...in my job, in the suburbs, I can drive right to my place of employment...park literally 100 feet away and not have to pay for it...I couldn't do that if I worked downtown...someone mentioned downtown is more exciting...that's true but I work at the office, I don't go for entertainment. Different strokes for different folks I guess...

And Medical Mutual wasn't paached...their downtown facility was too big and outdated...Brooklyn had enough space for them after Westlake had poached American Greetings...I guess I look at it I'd rather keep the company in NE Ohio, regardless where its at, as opposed to having it leave the region.

I've seen the inside of Medical Mutual's bldg in Brooklyn...it's quite impressive...allowas for a lot of collaboration and is a very comfortable building to work in, and conveniently located right off of 480.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by TheProf

But what I hate most is the constant poaching of substantial downtown businesses such as Medical Mutual or Eaton. So we weaken downtown while contributing to urban sprawl. This really sucks imho.

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I hate working in a suburb. Thankfully I only have to go 2x a week. It sucks. If I worked downtown I'd probably go 4x per week. Can't stand the boredom of the suburban office environment.

Yes to both of you! It's not just that it's bad for the city -- It's bad for the employees too.

I would consider any employer in downtown, and within a few east side suburbs near me.

Lake County and West Side employers might a well be in a different state to me. I'm not going to commute there. And it sucks that at least half of the companies that relocate to the exurbs are going to be outside of my pool of potential employers.

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

Make downtown cheaper then...the cost to rent office space is far less expensive in the suburbs....get rid of paid parking downtown too...Americans are autocentric...in my job, in the suburbs, I can drive right to my place of employment...park literally 100 feet away and not have to pay for it...I couldn't do that if I worked downtown.

Office parks just shift the costs to the employee.

When I worked in an office park off 271 I couldn't just ride the rapid in to town. I couldn't be a one car household.

The cost to my family was huge. We paid for a second car, an extra parking spot at our apartment building, and all of the gas and maintenance that goes along with that.

Heck, when deciding where to live I had to discard half of Cuyahoga county, because I'm not going to commute that far by car.

And now I guess I can mark Medical Mutual off of my list of potential places to work.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

Americans are autocentric.

Indeed, and therein lies a major problem in this country. Autocentrism has led to sprawl, which has led to inefficient uses of time and services. (like our over-gas consumption and zillions of hours lost sitting sitting in traffic. Texas A&M University did an excellent study of this 20-odd years ago. Even conservative think tanks, which are generally anti-transit, tend to agree on this one.

In addition to terrible land uses: verdant natural land (forests, farmland, meadows, wetlands, etc) gobbled up by light-density cul-de-sacs and ugly campus-style office parks, warehouses, car dealerships, etc, urban sprawl also leads to economic, social, and racial & ethnic segregation and social dysfunction.

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

Make downtown cheaper then...the cost to rent office space is far less expensive in the suburbs....get rid of paid parking downtown too.....in my job, in the suburbs, I can drive right to my place of employment...park literally 100 feet away and not have to pay for it...I couldn't do that if I worked downtown...someone mentioned downtown is more exciting...that's true but I work at the office, I don't go for entertainment.

So force vendors to void parking fees and cut out a source of income for them (is this Russia?). While at the same time, encouraging more autos to cram downtown, as well as highways and streets leading to it, thus a) making downtown a more unpleasant (smog, honking, general noise), unsafe (more unhealthy smog, more dangerous drivers on walkable streets, etc) place to live and work, while b) discouraging transit use, while c) encouraging more sprawl: encouraging more folks like you to thwart the citiy for the burbs, including burbs in neighboring counties not named Cuyahoga.

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

Different strokes for different folks I guess...

Truly, and it's a free country. I respect your belief on this even though I disagree with it... I similarly hope you respect mine.

Originally Posted by ohioaninsc

And Medical Mutual wasn't paached...their downtown facility was too big and outdated...Brooklyn had enough space for them after Westlake had poached American Greetings...I guess I look at it I'd rather keep the company in NE Ohio, regardless where its at, as opposed to having it leave the region.

Disagree and agree.

Disagree: Med Mutual was indeed poached. Yes, they've downsized and didn't need the large building; no problem with that. But Brooklyn encouraged them to leave and even you note in your post, the unhealthy atmosphere even within the County as Westlake poached Brooklyn of Am Greetings leading Brooklyn to poach Medical Mutual from downtown... and that's a good thing??

Agree: I would rather keep a company in the County or, at least, in the metro region, but... (disagree) you're positing a red herring (much like these companies and weak-kneed city officials do. ... Cleveland needs to flex its muscle sometimes. We're all (most of us, anyway) really tired of companies directly or indirectly/psychologically, putting a gun to city officials' heads with the threat then bowing down and letting these companies flee downtown thus hurting what still is the City's and region's nerve center/living room. At some point the City needs to muscle up: strongly encourage companies to stay; work with them to find quality space downtown while, also, highlighting all the great and exciting things occurring downtown (obviously you don't see these things)...

... and after making such a strong, concerted effort to keep them downtown (like we apparently did with Sherwin-Williams, which could have easily left the City and the State), if these corporate bigwigs still want to make or hint they still want to make a suburbs-or-Sun Belt threat... wave them bye-bye while simultaneously telling them to go Pound Sand.

[ohioaninsc]

"Truly, and it's a free country. I respect your belief on this even though I disagree with it... I similarly hope you respect mine."


I 100% respect your belief...one thing I like about the Cleveland area is there plenty of jobs all over...if you want to work DT, great...if you want the convenience of living in a nice suburb and only have a quick drive to work you most likely have that option too...not everybody wants to be around the crowds of downtown...I don't mind going down for a game at the Jake (sorry, I'm never not calling it that)...or the arena (seems to change it's name every 5 years or so) or a play at playhouse square...but I would not want to have to drive into downtown every day for work (I prefer driving as I'm in control compared to public transit), and then pay to park on top of the gas I already pay for...and still have to walk a decent ways....
My mom is retired now but she did sales work for a company downtown so she had to drive in then go out on appts throughout the day...she hated driving in every day.

[ohioaninsc]

Disagree: Med Mutual was indeed poached. Yes, they've downsized and didn't need the large building; no problem with that. But Brooklyn encouraged them to leave and even you note in your post, the unhealthy atmosphere even within the County as Westlake poached Brooklyn of Am Greetings leading Brooklyn to poach Medical Mutual from downtown... and that's a good thing??




What would fix this greatly is if Cuyahoga County/Cleveland did what Indianapolis/Marion County did...do away w/ all the little fiefdoms and go w/ a unified City/County government....would stop the "poaching" from each other...companies could find the exact type of space they want, and taxes would be same across the county...and you could do away w/ RITA (who wouldn't want that)

[WRnative]

<<Within the next 2-3 years, newly elected Cuyahoga County Executive Chris Ronayne hopes to reopen the streetcar corridor of the Detroit-Superior Bridge as a year-round "park in the sky" for bikers and walkers.>>

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/...a-co-exec-says

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by WRnative

<<Within the next 2-3 years, newly elected Cuyahoga County Executive Chris Ronayne hopes to reopen the streetcar corridor of the Detroit-Superior Bridge as a year-round "park in the sky" for bikers and walkers.>>

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/...a-co-exec-says

Very nice idea and would be a great way for walkers/bikers to cross the D-S/HM bridge without the worry of narrow sidewalks or cars. We would really need strong lighting under the bridge, though. Ronayne is coming into office guns-a-blazing with constructive, creative urban ideas... His tenure promises to be a real renaissance period for Cleveland.

[216facts]

A division of Oracle is investing in midtown, according to NEOtrans:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/02/10/or...aining-center/

More good news for the area, along with Canon Healthcare American HQ.

[216facts]

The CCF sure can build some ugly buildings, IMO. Their upcoming Global Center for Pathogen and Human Health Research is about as architecturally appealing as the lego block houses I was building when I was a kid. They're going in along Cedar, hmmm, no need to inspire the neighbors? Oh I shouldn't say such bad things about our #1 employer.

From NEOtrans: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2023/...trict.html?m=1

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by 216facts

The CCF sure can build some ugly buildings, IMO. Their upcoming Global Center for Pathogen and Human Health Research is about as architecturally appealing as the lego block houses I was building when I was a kid. They're going in along Cedar, hmmm, no need to inspire the neighbors? Oh I shouldn't say such bad things about our #1 employer.

From NEOtrans: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2023/...trict.html?m=1

Cleveland.com architecture critic Steven Litt isn't fond of the CCF campus:



<<While the Clinic has worked hard in recent decades to lead the field of healthcare architecture with light-washed patient rooms and art-filled interiors, its 173-acre campus has become cold, sterile, and lifeless, except for torrents of traffic and employees walking from building to building.





“The fact is that the Clinic certainly had some desires over the years to create an island rather than a connected place,’’ said Robert Brown, a planning consultant, and former Cleveland city planning director. “Hopefully they’re more enlightened these days.”>>


https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/...ommentary.html