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Cleveland and the rust belt sucks to live in. So does Chicago, but it's home to the husband. I have no idea how Cleveland got such a hospital complex, but it's truly great.
Unfortunately, I too lived 3 winters with cabin fever in the Midwest, and I never want to ever live that far north again.
But he has to do what's right for the family. Cleveland Clinic makes for a great resume, and there's always other places to move to that have a better quality of life.
That's pretty much how I paraphrased your comments, above. I found them subjective, uninformed, not enlightening and contrary to the reality of most people who have lived in or experienced Cleveland.
Wow. Lots of this is a bit insulting - and some of it is totally understandable. I think there's just a weird shift in priorities over the years. We would ALL like to live somewhere warm. Somewhere fun. Somewhere with exactly what we want and nothing we don't (like taxes). But this isn't TV. It's real life, and nearly 100 million people live "up north" - so it must not be ALL bad.
The Cleveland Orchestra is highly respected around the world, roughly ranked the same as Chicago's.
You don't have to be a Cleveland sports fan to enjoy sports. I hate the Browns, but would still attend more games - if I lived right there. Browns / Cavs / Indians - all easy to walk to.
Real Estate - look what you can get in Charleston for 1 million dollars. Now look at this:
If you're fretting over taxes, it's not "low" anywhere, but it can be much less if you move out of Cuyahoga County. Try Lake or Summit.
There is a lake nearby, as you know from Chicago, it's a good lake, some call it Great. Not everyone loves saltwater, sharks, rattlesnakes or alligators. None of that here. I'll take my chances with a snow shovel. I do enjoy the beaches in the south - for about an hour. Then I'm done. But if you love boating - the Great Lakes are a fun place to fish, to party, or just go drop anchor in the middle for a few days.
Cleveland is conveniently located within driving distance to about half the country in a short day - esp. New York.
The Cleveland Clinic has been here for 100 years, because 100 years ago (and farther past) many many extremely wealthy folks lived here. Time moves on - but the clinic remains. In 1910 only 5 cities in the USA were bigger than Cleveland. JD Rockefeller lived here. He's just the richest person of all time. Ever. (Not counting a shady German guy from 600 years ago.)
In short: If you don't like freshwater boating. don't enjoy sports as Just A Fan, don't like world-class arts, don't want a giant house at 20% of the going price elsewhere, don't enjoy day tripping to this corner of the USA, aren't worried about your kids or your dog finding a cottonmouth, and don't like Michael Symon restaurants - then it's true, Cleveland has nothing for you - except that all of those things should pale in comparison to the only thing that matters. Your wife. So it seems you've made the right choice. Now you have to stop complaining about it.
For what it's worth - my wife agrees with every word you've said, and given half a chance - we'd be outta here. She hates the weather, the people, the gray sky, the people, the taxes, lots of the people, the potholes, the corruption, the pasty white complexion we all have - and she also hates the people. Huge tribe fan, though, so she gets by.
Life's what ya make of it. If you don't like it here - BE the change, and do something positive. My opinion - without knowing more about your situation - is that your WIFE is being The Change - and what she will do for countless people in the next 20 years will outweigh any property tax savings you can wrangle. Accept it, embrace it, and look forward to retirement...like the rest of us.
Yes, awful! And it's practically in Pennsylvania, not CLE! $1 million goes a long way here in Charleston, and with property taxes under $2K per year at that price point.
We toured lots of homes and decided to buy something in SH well below our means and just save money and get settled. We looked at the more expensive homes and were unimpressed. Lots of 1980s and 90s McMansions that needed full guts or older historic homes where AC is considered a luxury, and Knob and Tube wiring comes standard.
Ultimately, we'll probably custom build or tear down and custom build. It will be far less money and we'll get what we want. We set ourselves up to make this a possibility within 3 years. The only question is stay on east side or move to west side.
West side seems to have newer homes, newer everything really. Better lake and beach access, marinas, better proximity to Cedar Point, Chicago and Michigan that we will visit often, less snow, Rocky River Metropark, Zoo, lower property taxes and lower income taxes (full credit for wife's payment to CLE and less for me working from home). Looking at Bay Village, Rocky River and Westlake longer term perhaps.
Last edited by cubsguy81; 05-28-2020 at 12:08 PM..
Wow. Lots of this is a bit insulting - and some of it is totally understandable. I think there's just a weird shift in priorities over the years. We would ALL like to live somewhere warm. Somewhere fun. Somewhere with exactly what we want and nothing we don't (like taxes). But this isn't TV. It's real life, and nearly 100 million people live "up north" - so it must not be ALL bad.
We've lived a real life here, and millions more do. It's everything I imagined it could be and more. Seriously, just living in a warm sunny place does so much to improve your life. I can't emphasize that enough!
Most people we know up north are tied to jobs and would leave if they could. I suspect as remote working becomes the norm, there will be an acceleration in the exodus to the South that has been in progress for years. Most people here in Charleston aren't natives - they are transplants from Ohio, Illinois and Pennsylvania. New Yorkers thankfully keep driving towards Miami
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279
There is a lake nearby, as you know from Chicago, it's a good lake, some call it Great. Not everyone loves saltwater, sharks, rattlesnakes or alligators. None of that here. I'll take my chances with a snow shovel. I do enjoy the beaches in the south - for about an hour. Then I'm done. But if you love boating - the Great Lakes are a fun place to fish, to party, or just go drop anchor in the middle for a few days.
True, and we love water. I happen to love the Ocean and the Gulf, but Freshwater is great, no argument there. My perception is Lake Erie is the least desirable of the lakes. I grew up near Lake Michigan and it is a majestic lake, huge beaches, dunes and accessible. Lake Erie seems inaccessible. Very few beaches and what is there is small. Lots of inaccessible cliffs and drop offs. No lakefront like Chicago, no big dunes or beaches like Michigan. Only plus side is it gets warmer than any of the other lakes given it is shallow. We would enjoy having a boat and will probably get one. Seems living on the west side ling term is most condusive to this lifestyle with boat ramps, marinas, beaches, put-in-bay area etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279
For what it's worth - my wife agrees with every word you've said, and given half a chance - we'd be outta here. She hates the weather, the people, the gray sky, the people, the taxes, lots of the people, the potholes, the corruption, the pasty white complexion we all have - and she also hates the people. Huge tribe fan, though, so she gets by.
I'm not trying to be insulting, just openly airing my honest, unfiltered feelings on it all. A few other brave ones have come forward and validate my thoughts, so I am not completely an arogant snob Even your wife agrees. Tell me more about why your wife hates the people? So far everyone I have encountered seems nice.
Hehe, nothing personal intended, just my honesty as well.
My wife feels that this corner of the world has more than its fair share of rude, nosy, dishonest citizens, not necessarily related to income. She worked in an exclusive-ish salon for 15 years, so I believe she just saw the troublemakers of the world - bored housewives. When we travel (domestic or international) I believe you see the best of other folks - because they're generally in the tourist industry. She thinks it means all the people there are pleasant by and large. Small disconnect. It's true, though, in our own neighborhood, lots of jacka$$es, and not that many houses.
We're in Youngstown now - so statistically speaking, we do have more than our share of miscreants.
That house in Poland - garish? I was thinking...for sale for a year, no takers. My point was, even that 10K square foot house, on several acres - is too expensive here at 1 million dollars. If I had the money - I would buy one of those old houses in Cleveland you're referring to - the 1900's homes - some real stone classics always on the market. Sure it would cost a fortune to renovate - but it's a real mansion not the "Mc" style.
Yes, I used Poland - because it's the most expensive neighborhood around here. HA! I could have used something closer, the house would only cost less. I was pointing out that there is value to be found, even in huge Garish homes. If that's your thing.
We drive to Cleveland regularly from here, less than an hour to the CC. Poland is "practically PA" but it's still only 60 miles or so from Cleveland. If it were your type of thing you could buy 40 acres and build a right proud nice house for dirt cheap halfway between here and there. If you get outside the city - there are no city income taxes - so you're really just talking about 1 or 2% difference on your property tax between here and The South. It's not "nothing."
Lake Erie is crap for access right in Cleveland. That's why we have Geneva - to your East - and Presque Isle, a little farther. There are many others. Tons of wineries (no, not NAPA) to your East as well. You are also just a couple hours from Niagara Falls, or, a little farther, Toronto, which is a fabulous place to overnight. If the border line is short, you can be in your hotel room in 5 hours or less, downtown Toronto. (uh, not right now, sorry, stupid covid)
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame! That's good for an annual visit...er, maybe once ever two years.
McMansions are not unique to Cleveland, btw. And the fishing here is tremendous.
I find it childish for an adult to say I "hate the people" because every human being is different. There are cities and regions I don't care for, for sure, but I know there is at least one person -- actually probably many -- in that place who I probably would like. I've hung out with/befriended/dated people from all over the world.
I don't get the attitude behind threads like this. (I know it's common on City-Data, I'm just commenting here, because it's relatively local, and keeps getting bumped back to the top) The OP talks about being in Cleveland for 15-20 years like it's a prison sentence.
I have the "luxury" of being single. So, I could live wherever I want. And, there are plenty of places I wouldn't necessarily choose to live. I wouldn't want to go much further south than the Ohio River, because I don't want more heat, for example. My aunt and uncle recently moved to South Carolina, to be closer to their adult daughter, to a town about 90 miles NW of Charleston. She commented today that the heat index was 101 degrees! No thanks! (I suppose the weather in the utopia that is Charleston is moderated by being on the coast?)
But, I feel confident that I could find happiness living anywhere in the US. Although I prefer living in a well-preserved historic home in a historic district with some walkability and a little space for perennial landscaping, if I found myself living in a place like Phoenix, where that would be very difficult to achieve, I'd find other interests. Maybe I'd find a place with great desert views and look into xeriscaping, or get into restoring classic cars, or something?
Prof - I don't disagree - not to her face, anyway. : D
I think her point, in all seriousness, is that our area has a bit of a "woe is me" attitude, a lack of respect for neighbors, elders, God, teachers, parents, and the law (I understand that not everyone has the same priorities) - and that this attitude is played out daily around here. I could give examples, but this is cubsguys's cleveland thread, and I don't mean to hijack it.
I can sum it up with a simple question: Is it "right" - or "normal" - in your world - that you blame YOURSELF if something is stolen from your car / yard / garage - because you didn't lock it / close it / hide it? That's where we are, here. We blame ourselves. She has realized this is the case - and that is really the type of "hate" she has. She hates that we have accepted that this is "as good as people get." And instead of moving - we blame us - not them. She hates that - about herself.
My aunt and uncle recently moved to South Carolina, to be closer to their adult daughter, to a town about 90 miles NW of Charleston. She commented today that the heat index was 101 degrees! No thanks! (I suppose the weather in the utopia that is Charleston is moderated by being on the coast?)
Inland SC is far hotter than the coast. We have a moderating sea breeze here in CHS during summer afternoons and it rarely gets over 90. Upper 80s most days. Humid? Yes. But there are breaks. Practically every day from now until October is the same. 89/77 with chance of a pop up storm.
You do accliamte to the heat, so much so that 70s or even an 80 degree day with no humidity you sometimes want a light jacket. I didn't understand it either until I lived here.
Truthfully, it's only hot and humid from June through early October. The rest of the year is low humidity, strong sun and pleasant.
Winters are also moderated by the ocean. Rarely ever gets down to the 30s here and if it does for a few hours overnight, and its usually due to cold air advection from the north, when it is near zero in places like CLE. Immediately back to the 50s within an hour of sunrise. Inland SC gets much colder. No snow. Sunshine all winter. January is 60s/70s most days. Trees and flowers bloom all year and "Spring" really gets underway in January.
What's not to like?
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is moderated by being on the coast?)
