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Old 09-27-2020, 08:05 AM
 
168 posts, read 72,280 times
Reputation: 245

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Okay, first off, let's ignore the school aspect. I'm single and the dog's already been to obedience school.

Renting now in Shaker, starting to house hunt. Given my desire for lots over 1/3 an acre and be near larger wooded areas for the pup, I have to include Western Lakewood and RR in my search. I do love Shaker, but I hate that the green spaces are so small for dogs (and virtually impossible to go off leash without the stink eye).

I happened upon some neighborhoods in the Northern sections of Fairview Park yesterday that were VERY nice with some nice pre WWII (or late 40s) housing stock....I was VERY surprised. I was also surprised how close Northern FP is to a lot of things (and housing prices are a lot less). But I'm worried it's more conservative and um, middle class than I am I accustomed to (I am a flaming liberal, a VP level exec in the private sector and spent the last 30 years in Boston. But I am NOT a soccer mom/flash your wealth kind of person...I was a Peace Corps volunteer).

So, I need to start thinking about how these towns differ APART from schools.

Please tell me where I'm off base (and I'm ONLY focusing on West/Northwest Lakewood, not the whole town).

Political leanings: W Lakewood (Liberal), Rocky River (conservative), Fairview Park (conservative)
Average Income: Rocky River (Highest), W Lakewood (middle), Fairview Park (less)
Crime: Rocky River (least), Fairview Park (less), W Lakewood/Lakewood (more)

Indoor Community Center (with pool): Yes to all 3
Outdoor Community Pool: Lakewood and Rocky River, yes. Fairview Park: No
Cute Downtown: RR, then W Lakewood, then FP

Access to big box retail: FP, then RR, then W Lakewood (but by less than 5 minutes)
Access to a wide variety of high end local restaurants: W Lakewood (best), Rocky River, then Fairview Park (but less than a 5 minute differential by car)
Access to the Lake: Rocky River Park, then W Lakewood (via Lakewood Park), none for Fairview Park
Access to a public beach. None
Access to the Valley (particularly the southern end): Fairview Park, then W Lakewood, then Rocky River
Access to the Valley Marina: pretty much equidistant


Train noise: Fairview park (least) then RR, then W Lakewood (most).
Driving access to downtown: W Lakewood, then RR, then Fairview Park (but by less than 5 min differential)
Property Taxes: RR (highest) then W Lakewood, then Fairview Park.

What else am I missing? TIA.

PS. West Lakewood is probably the best of all worlds for me, but housing prices are thru the roof for the lot size I want. Which is why northern FP is such a welcome surprise.

Last edited by TechieTechie; 09-27-2020 at 08:13 AM..
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Old 09-27-2020, 09:46 AM
 
9,756 posts, read 6,537,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechieTechie View Post
Okay, first off, let's ignore the school aspect. I'm single and the dog's already been to obedience school.

Renting now in Shaker, starting to house hunt. Given my desire for lots over 1/3 an acre and be near larger wooded areas for the pup, I have to include Western Lakewood and RR in my search. I do love Shaker, but I hate that the green spaces are so small for dogs (and virtually impossible to go off leash without the stink eye).

I happened upon some neighborhoods in the Northern sections of Fairview Park yesterday that were VERY nice with some nice pre WWII (or late 40s) housing stock....I was VERY surprised. I was also surprised how close Northern FP is to a lot of things (and housing prices are a lot less). But I'm worried it's more conservative and um, middle class than I am I accustomed to (I am a flaming liberal, a VP level exec in the private sector and spent the last 30 years in Boston. But I am NOT a soccer mom/flash your wealth kind of person...I was a Peace Corps volunteer).

So, I need to start thinking about how these towns differ APART from schools.

Please tell me where I'm off base (and I'm ONLY focusing on West/Northwest Lakewood, not the whole town).

Political leanings: W Lakewood (Liberal), Rocky River (conservative), Fairview Park (conservative)
Average Income: Rocky River (Highest), W Lakewood (middle), Fairview Park (less)
Crime: Rocky River (least), Fairview Park (less), W Lakewood/Lakewood (more)

Indoor Community Center (with pool): Yes to all 3
Outdoor Community Pool: Lakewood and Rocky River, yes. Fairview Park: No
Cute Downtown: RR, then W Lakewood, then FP

Access to big box retail: FP, then RR, then W Lakewood (but by less than 5 minutes)
Access to a wide variety of high end local restaurants: W Lakewood (best), Rocky River, then Fairview Park (but less than a 5 minute differential by car)
Access to the Lake: Rocky River Park, then W Lakewood (via Lakewood Park), none for Fairview Park
Access to a public beach. None
Access to the Valley (particularly the southern end): Fairview Park, then W Lakewood, then Rocky River
Access to the Valley Marina: pretty much equidistant


Train noise: Fairview park (least) then RR, then W Lakewood (most).
Driving access to downtown: W Lakewood, then RR, then Fairview Park (but by less than 5 min differential)
Property Taxes: RR (highest) then W Lakewood, then Fairview Park.

What else am I missing? TIA.

PS. West Lakewood is probably the best of all worlds for me, but housing prices are thru the roof for the lot size I want. Which is why northern FP is such a welcome surprise.

Good evaluation for persons seeking single family homes versus condos, apartments. Lakewood's "Gold Coast" is tops for these individuals.


My memory of FP, from three decades ago, is relatively large, more time-consuming lots.


One factor that you left out, which is muted right now due to decreased traffic as a result of the epidemic, is proximity to Cleveland Hopkins and jet noise. Parts of FP, given its greater proximity to Hopkins may be more exposed to aircraft noise. I'm not familiar with the flight paths into and out of Hopkins on the west side. I know many of these flight paths utilize Lake Erie to reduce ground noise, especially for landings, but jets still have to get from LE to the airport. I don't know what areas descending or ascending (likely more noisy due to engine speeds need to ascend) planes fly over, but certainly parts of FP might be utilized, especially for aircraft approaching from the west or northwest. Perhaps Facebook could provide some information. As most persons don't use antennas for TV reception any longer, this is less of an issue, but I've always wondered if jet traffic impacts Wi-Fi or cellular operations.



https://www.clevelandairport.com/abo...bility-reports


Searching for "Fairview Park jet noise," I found these articles, and there are other links available. There are many references to the West 210 corridor.


https://www.cleveland.com/community/...fic-noise.html


https://www.westlifenews.com/opinion...3e9a2c9f0.html


https://www.westlifenews.com/news/fa...f6d16b97a.html


FP is a great location for golfers given the proximity to Big Met and other golf courses, including Little Met.

Last edited by WRnative; 09-27-2020 at 09:56 AM..
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Old 09-27-2020, 10:00 AM
 
168 posts, read 72,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
One factor that you left out, which is muted right now due to decreased traffic as a result of the epidemic, is proximity to Cleveland Hopkins and jet noise. Parts of FP, given its greater proximity to Hopkins may be more exposed to aircraft noise. FP is a great location for golfers given the proximity to Big Met and other golf courses, including Little Met.

Excellent point. When I drove thru southern FP and Olmstead township (near the horse stables) I could absolutely here the plane approach. Will have to do some digging. Thank you!!!
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Old 09-27-2020, 10:17 AM
 
365 posts, read 487,628 times
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I live in RR and am a liberal. RR is leaning blue now and voted blue in 2016. There is no real land to be owned but we’re close to Metroparks and Elmwood for dog play. And the beaches as well.

I agree with all your assessments. Fairview Park by Bain Park is really beautiful. You may be able to find similar property in Bay Village, to be honest, and have a higher income class surrounding you, if that is important.
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Old 09-27-2020, 10:34 AM
 
9,756 posts, read 6,537,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechieTechie View Post
Excellent point. When I drove thru southern FP and Olmstead township (near the horse stables) I could absolutely here the plane approach. Will have to do some digging. Thank you!!!

I'm not certain if I'm correct, but Hopkins ascents seem steep and rapid, often over the IX Center, in an effort to contain take-off noise within commercial footprint surrounding Hopkins. Obviously, this isn't as possible with landings.


However, the articles linked in post 2 do suggest that take-offs do pass over FP. Thinking about it, flights to the east do use this flight path.


I definitely will pay more attention to take-off paths in the future!
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Old 09-27-2020, 10:37 AM
 
9,756 posts, read 6,537,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechieTechie View Post
Excellent point. When I drove thru southern FP and Olmstead township (near the horse stables) I could absolutely here the plane approach. Will have to do some digging. Thank you!!!

FYI, Olmsted, not Olmstead, after Aaron Olmsted.


https://case.edu/ech/articles/o/olmsted-falls
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Old 09-27-2020, 11:14 AM
 
168 posts, read 72,280 times
Reputation: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by citymama View Post
I live in RR and am a liberal. RR is leaning blue now and voted blue in 2016. There is no real land to be owned but we’re close to Metroparks and Elmwood for dog play. And the beaches as well.

I agree with all your assessments. Fairview Park by Bain Park is really beautiful. You may be able to find similar property in Bay Village, to be honest, and have a higher income class surrounding you, if that is important.

Citymama, good to know. I think Bay Village will be too far out. I like to be within a very short drive of very good restaurants (I eat out a lot).



But unfortunately, I think WR is right. Northern FP is right in the flight path of Hopkins
Attached Thumbnails
City Amenties and Culture: Fairview Park, W Lakewood, RR-hopkinstrafficflow.jpg  
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Old 09-28-2020, 10:28 AM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
2,020 posts, read 4,392,610 times
Reputation: 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
One factor that you left out, which is muted right now due to decreased traffic as a result of the epidemic, is proximity to Cleveland Hopkins and jet noise. Parts of FP, given its greater proximity to Hopkins may be more exposed to aircraft noise. I'm not familiar with the flight paths into and out of Hopkins on the west side. I know many of these flight paths utilize Lake Erie to reduce ground noise, especially for landings, but jets still have to get from LE to the airport. I don't know what areas descending or ascending (likely more noisy due to engine speeds need to ascend) planes fly over, but certainly parts of FP might be utilized, especially for aircraft approaching from the west or northwest. Perhaps Facebook could provide some information. As most persons don't use antennas for TV reception any longer, this is less of an issue, but I've always wondered if jet traffic impacts Wi-Fi or cellular operations.
Some notes on airplane noise and traffic...

I live under the turn and approach for east-to-west approach traffic to CVG (Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky's major airport). Planes typically fly over at about 2500 feet above ground level. While I still notice on occasion the noise, it fades into the background pretty quick. Of course, with this type of noise, it can effect people differently, so keep that in mind.

I am lucky in the departure use of the east/west runway (departing to the east) is pretty rare, so departure ascent noise is pretty minimal and rare. Therefore, I cannot comment much on this type of noise. With my location, much of the traffic is early morning (before 7 am to keep noise levels over more populated areas north and south of CVG) and I do not wake from the arrivals traffic. And with DHL and Amazon, much of that traffic is wide-body types.

As for the TV/Cell Signals, I do not have problems with cellular calls or cellular network connections. Same with TV antenna reception that supplements my cable streaming service. The little antenna boxes today are much more powerful than the metal rabbit ears of yesteryear. Wi-Fi should not be a problem as almost all providers are cable or phone line (DSL) based unless you are in a rural area.
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Old 09-29-2020, 02:23 AM
 
9,756 posts, read 6,537,263 times
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Originally Posted by wrightflyer View Post
Some notes on airplane noise and traffic...

I live under the turn and approach for east-to-west approach traffic to CVG (Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky's major airport). Planes typically fly over at about 2500 feet above ground level. While I still notice on occasion the noise, it fades into the background pretty quick. Of course, with this type of noise, it can effect people differently, so keep that in mind.

I am lucky in the departure use of the east/west runway (departing to the east) is pretty rare, so departure ascent noise is pretty minimal and rare. Therefore, I cannot comment much on this type of noise. With my location, much of the traffic is early morning (before 7 am to keep noise levels over more populated areas north and south of CVG) and I do not wake from the arrivals traffic. And with DHL and Amazon, much of that traffic is wide-body types.

As for the TV/Cell Signals, I do not have problems with cellular calls or cellular network connections. Same with TV antenna reception that supplements my cable streaming service. The little antenna boxes today are much more powerful than the metal rabbit ears of yesteryear. Wi-Fi should not be a problem as almost all providers are cable or phone line (DSL) based unless you are in a rural area.
Thanks for providing this information.

I grew up less than a block from a busy rail line. I never paid attention to the noise, even at night with the windows open. I never remember even the loud whistles waking me.
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Old 10-02-2020, 06:14 AM
 
Location: NKY's Campbell Co.
2,020 posts, read 4,392,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Thanks for providing this information.

I grew up less than a block from a busy rail line. I never paid attention to the noise, even at night with the windows open. I never remember even the loud whistles waking me.
An update here. I did look at the flight patterns from early evening and later in the day for October 1st on Flight Aware. What I found is for southwest-bound arrivals' direction, planes tend to make their final turn to the southwest over the Detroit-Shoreway and Edgewater neighborhoods, and potentially the eastern portions of Lakewood. If not there, it is usually even further out over Lake Erie. There are occasional outliers that turn for shorter finals over western Cleveland and Rocky River, but my assumption feels that is less likely to occur regularly. Noise tends to be greater over the turns as increased thrust is needed to keep the plane aloft in the turn.

I would say you probably would have some residual noise in parts of Fairview Park, Lakewood and Rocky River depending where in the city you are. While flights do not pass directly over, due to their low altitude (approximately 1000-1500 feet above mean sea level or slightly less) and the need to keep steady speed and thus induce jet noise, I would expect some bleed over from the approach lane. The good news is a lot of the older planes that were particularly bad with bleeding noise pollution, such as the 80's era American and Delta MD80s/MD88s/MD90s have been retired with the COVID-induced drop in passenger traffic and won't return to service. The biggest culprits now are the 50-seat regionals, which due to their small design, need more thrust on arrival for a good glide path.

I would be interested in seeing the northeast-bound departure lanes as I would not be surprised to see some flights take off and turn northwest/west over Lakewood, Rocky River and Fairview Park. Not sure on that exact departure path, and it may well begin the turn over Lake Erie to reduce noise pollution, but that would be interesting to know more. LAX is pretty strict on its west-bound departures turning over the water to reduce pollution in Marina Del Ray and Manhattan Beach. Perhaps CLE is the same? Anyways, when planes depart they need to climb a bit before making turns, so paths immediately over Fairview Park and even Rocky River may be unlikely. But residual noise around the immediate departure lane could be a problem.

As a final note, when I lived in Gahanna, which is just north of the main passenger airport for Columbus, when you got close to the airport near the southern city limits, you could hear planes (especially those MD80s) about 1-2 miles away. Even when the flight path was south of the shopping center. It wasn't obnoxious in my opinion but you could notice it south of Granville St / Havens Corners Road. It was worse when they landed from east to west.

WRNative, railroad lines would probably be a bother to me if the whistle was really loud. Sudden shrill noises are not my forte. I can take steady hums from jet engines better. Of course, if you are near a crossing, the whistle is more a concern then a general rail line. I can occasionally hear engines where I am at now, but they are just a low hum. I think the advent of quiet zones for trains in populated areas has helped with their type of noise pollution as well.
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