What's the story on the "Gold Coast" high rise condos being reasonably priced? (Lakewood: apartments, HOA fees)

[huitrecouture]

I'm not sure of the neighborhood/city/town names but I've been enjoying virtual house hunting on Lake Erie. I guess it's basically Lakewood, but also north up to Euclid or south to Rocky River so far. I learned about Lakewood from a member here who moved to the Westerly Apartments.

So, there are several condo buildings with some units $50,000 to $100K with a variety of options, some including utilities.

I'm very familiar with condo living and the engineering problems of high rises on/near water but other than known but non disclosed issues, is there just a glut of condos built there that are now available? Like: Marine Towers, Edgewater Towers, The Envoy, Lake House, The Winton...And some in areas I don't know about like Shaker Heights The Barkley Building.

Well, saying glut is probably an overstatement.

I'm relocating from Florida (yes really LOL) and will be coming up there visiting once my condo here sells. Bad timing in winter but oh well. But I'm originally from Phila and that's my other option in my plans.

I really would LOVE a large studio/1 BR because I'm a minimalist person. I don't even use the 1200 SF in my existing condo - I use about a third of that. Large open concept and where they exist a balcony would be my number one selling point. Then of course that water view.

Any information, input or recommendations would be great, thanks!

[Tess_Vantassel]

I Live in Marine Towers East, Our building is filled with older people who bought their condos in the Early to Mid 1970’s. Sadly a lot of them are now getting to the point where they can no longer live independently and are moving on to nursing homes. I’m sure the same thing is going on in other buildings as well.

For the most part There is nothing wrong with Buildings, The condo’s are great if you’re buying the property with the intention of living in it, however the higher then average HOA Fees and property taxes mean that property investors will see a low rate of return On their investments. Which overall makes the units less desirable and helps keep the demand low and prices reasonable.

Just to give you an idea of what you’re looking at price wise, I Bought my 2 bedroom condo for $65000 in cash and I pay $1350 in HOA Fees and a property tax of around 2200 a year.

[huitrecouture]

Originally Posted by Tess_Vantassel

I Live in Marine Towers East, Our building is filled with older people who bought their condos in the Early to Mid 1970’s. Sadly a lot of them are now getting to the point where they can no longer live independently and are moving on to nursing homes. I’m sure the same thing is going on in other buildings as well.

For the most part There is nothing wrong with Buildings, The condo’s are great if you’re buying the property with the intention of living in it, however the higher then average HOA Fees and property taxes mean that property investors will see a low rate of return On their investments. Which overall makes the units less desirable and helps keep the demand low and prices reasonable.

Just to give you an idea of what you’re looking at price wise, I Bought my 2 bedroom condo for $65000 in cash and I pay $1350 in HOA Fees and a property tax of around 2200 a year.

Thank you so much for responding. Your explanation makes total sense.

OK I knew about the taxes but that HOA fee whoa.

Does the HOA fee vary by SQ FT?

I hadn't notice any other listings that high But I see that #1605 2/2 is listed $215K and it says " Seller will pay the 2022 Major Repair & Replacement Reserve fees (for 2021 these fees have been $908.50 per month)

That tells me the HOA was doing a bad job with their reserves or had some serious building issue and are playing catch up, correct?

#1603 is listed for 50K but it's a studio and they list the HOA fee as $291 and don't mention any special assessment.


Just to give you an idea what I'm leaving in FL: 1200 SF 2/2 I pay $390 per month in HOA fees, only had ONE assessment in 13 years when we voted for an assessment of $250.00 HAHA and my taxes this year were $400.00. We have 3 Million in reserves.

I paid $120K cash 13 years ago and the comps today are $200K.

You pay electric and cable, right? The heat is in your condo fee? When these listings say Association fee includes Air Conditioning is that a realtor being goofy talking about the common areas or does your HOA literally replace/maintain every unit's AC when needed?

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by Tess_Vantassel

I Live in Marine Towers East, Our building is filled with older people who bought their condos in the Early to Mid 1970’s. Sadly a lot of them are now getting to the point where they can no longer live independently and are moving on to nursing homes. I’m sure the same thing is going on in other buildings as well.

For the most part There is nothing wrong with Buildings, The condo’s are great if you’re buying the property with the intention of living in it, however the higher then average HOA Fees and property taxes mean that property investors will see a low rate of return On their investments. Which overall makes the units less desirable and helps keep the demand low and prices reasonable.

Just to give you an idea of what you’re looking at price wise, I Bought my 2 bedroom condo for $65000 in cash and I pay $1350 in HOA Fees and a property tax of around 2200 a year.

Is that $1350 HOA fee per year? Or per month?

Wasn't Marine Towers East the building where the heating system failed several winters ago? And there wasn't enough in reserve to repair/replace it? IIRC the condo owners didn't want to pay for it via a special assessment. What was the final outcome of the situation?

[SteelCityRising]

If that HOA fee is $1,350/month that's insane. I pay $401/month to own a 2-BR, 1,100-square foot house with a detached garage near Downtown Pittsburgh, and my property taxes are next to nothing.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

If that HOA fee is $1,350/month that's insane. I pay $401/month to own a 2-BR, 1,100-square foot house with a detached garage near Downtown Pittsburgh, and my property taxes are next to nothing.

It probably is. If it's a year, it's a bargain.

[huitrecouture]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

If that HOA fee is $1,350/month that's insane. I pay $401/month to own a 2-BR, 1,100-square foot house with a detached garage near Downtown Pittsburgh, and my property taxes are next to nothing.

Yeah insane is right. Your numbers are exactly in line with mine. Now comparing to Phila, yes it would be more there but not THIS crazy. And I don't even think that 1350 includes cable LOL.

Florida has condo laws dictating reserve requirements because as I understand it, before I lived here, there were so many homeowners in HOAs voting to WAIVE the funding of reserves!

When I started looking one 3 story building had OPEN SKY showing through a 3 foot hole in the ceiling on the top floor and I said to the realtor: "WTH are you showing me???? Why is the ceiling missing and I can see clouds" and she said they had NO RESERVES LOL.

That was 2008 and important to know that it's critical to have good reserves here because of hurricanes. My entire building got destroyed in two back to back storms in 2004.

Here's a good document on The Top Ten Deadliest Mistakes Made In Condominium Reserves" for Florida/ Florida statutes but it's a good guide in general.

https://www.lawofficesofkevinwells.c...8003538801.pdf

I LOVE Pittsburgh! I used to stay at the Vista every week for a couple of days when we tested software at AT&T a long time ago. We did User testing there on our billing system because the work center people WERE so nice and great to work with. So yeah, the people are SO NICE and it's also one of my top choices for relocation back up North!

That's the only problem with condos especially a high rise. You really don't know what's been done or what's going on structurally/mechanically unless the HOA has a great reputation for being really super vigilant (like where I live)....IE one of the 38 floor high rises here insisted on an engineering study before the residents took the building HOA over from the builder and it's a good thing they did.

[bjimmy24]

I guess I assumed everyone knew HOA Fees were ridiculous

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by huitrecouture

That's the only problem with condos especially a high rise. You really don't know what's been done or what's going on structurally/mechanically unless the HOA has a great reputation for being really super vigilant (like where I live)....IE one of the 38 floor high rises here insisted on an engineering study before the residents took the building HOA over from the builder and it's a good thing they did.

The biggest, but most obvious risk IMO with condo reserves is the lack of expert input. E.g., elevators are extremely expensive to upgrade when needed. Every high-rise condo should have a specific reserve account for elevators. Estimated future costs should be specified by year and expert estimates of cost. Then the expense should be discounted to present value and funded. Would be surprised if you find this anywhere in Ohio. What about Florida? Ditto with HVAC, roofs, windows, doors, carpeting, parking lot paving, laundry equipment, etc. Ask for a copy of the reserve accounts and ask questions about the estimates (expert involvement?) and lack of funding.

I served on a condo board once, and encountered a board member working for a building contractor and not disclosing the relationship, a property manager steering contracts to preferred associates with the condo often overpaying IMO, and board members so enchanted with the property manager and lacking in business expertise that they were incapable of making good decisions.

I've heard of similar horror stories with condos that aren't high rises. They still have parking lots, much more roofing area/unit, and other common areas to be maintained.

Any condo that treats roofing maintenance haphazardly and doesn't fund reserves for replacement should be avoided.

Review the insurance policy. Does the condo have an umbrella policy and not just excess loss coverage? Does the insurance policy have directors & officers insurance? If the insurance coverage is problematic, likely so is the property manager.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I guess I assumed everyone knew HOA Fees were ridiculous

Although I have significant reservations about condos, when run properly, they likely are cheaper than single unit housing for the services received, unless an owner is capable of performing significant maintenance, which then requires the homeowner's time. E.g., paying for painting, landscaping, roofing, HVAC maintenance, snow removal, etc., is not cheap. Condos have economies of scale. Few single family homeowners maintain reserve accounts adequately funded using discounted analysis to pay for future estimated expenses.

And, of course, many homeowners, especially the elderly, are incapable of maintenance.

High rises have much lower per unit land costs, affording unit owners preferred locations, such as lakeside. Waste disposal in high rises doesn't require trips outdoors or moving waste containers to the curb. In-house staff provides services not readily available to single family homeowners. Security likely is better than in a single family home, all things considered. High rises should be more energy efficient.

Often, condo fees are very reasonable if a person actually examines what similar expenses would cost in a single family home.