Home Prices in the Cleveland area - where will they go?

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Chicago even benefited tremendously from the decision of John D. Rockefeller and his heirs to underwrite massively the University of Chicago as a Baptist national university and NOT instead to fund an upper educational institution in Greater Cleveland, where Rockefeller founded his financial empire before relocating to New York City.

John D. Rockefeller's contributions to the University of Chicago well exceeded half a billion, inflation-adjusted 2022 dollars.


https://www.lib.uchicago.edu/collex/...d-rockefeller/


I've read that substantial additional contributions came from his heirs/estate.


How would have Cleveland's future been transformed as the home of one of the world's greatest research institutions in the 20th century?

[216facts]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Please elaborate, because I don't understand your conclusion about far better natural resources in Greater Cleveland than in Chicago. Yes, we do have natural gas in Greater Cleveland, but not material amounts of it. Are you thinking about the steel industry developing in Cleveland due to its ability to import iron ore with lake freighters and access coal and coke by railroad from Appalachian coal mines in PA and southeastern OH?

My guess he is alluding to the Cleveland metroparks, CVNP, Lake metroparks, Summit County metroparks. Which I think we all agree, Chicagoland has a hard time competing with these.

I just got back from Rocky River Reservation, climbed the big staircase to the top of the cliff and watched a fisherman catch 2 trouts, from a 100ft birds eye view. Nice sunny day today.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by 216facts

My guess he is alluding to the Cleveland metroparks, CVNP, Lake metroparks, Summit County metroparks. Which I think we all agree, Chicagoland has a hard time competing with these.

Actually, I'm not certain, even extremely doubtful, that Cuyahoga County parks are superior to those in Cook County (Chicago).


Chicago has something the equivalent of metroparks, and Cook County actually appears to have much more extensive park acreage than Cuyahoga County with at least 11 percent of Cook County preserved as just "forest areas," exclusive of local parks. I didn't research Greater Chicago park systems serving suburban counties. Note that the Cook County Forest Preserves protect 69,000 acres! Unlike with Cleveland Metroparks, which has extensive acreage outside of Cuyahoga County, all of this acreage apparently is within Cook County. Admittedly, Cook County is over twice as large as Cuyahoga County in land area. Of course, when you adjust for the relative size of the two counties, and begin including other Greater Cleveland metropark systems and the CVNP, the disparity will not be so great in Cook County's favor.



https://www.cookcountyil.gov/agency/forest-preserves


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest...of_Cook_County



https://www.chicagoparkdistrict.com/...chicagos-parks


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parks_in_Chicago


It's confusing comparing local parks with county/state parks and nature preserves.


Note that Cleveland here rates lower than Chicago in "Parkscores," but this score seemingly only considers parks within a specific city. Cleveland ranks much higher than any Greater Cleveland suburb that I could find, with 83 percent of Clevelanders living within a 10-minute walk of a park. Cleveland is the second highest ranked city in Ohio, after number 8 Cincinnati where 87 percent of residents live within a 10-minute walk of a park. Chicago is ranked number 5, with 98 percent of residents located within a 10-minute walk of a park!!!



https://news.wttw.com/2020/05/20/chi...w-ranking-says


https://www.tpl.org/parkscore


https://www.tpl.org/city/cleveland-ohio


Some other Greater Cleveland cities (of cities checked, only Lakewood (75 percent of residents within a 10-minute walk of a park) comes close to Cleveland's Parkscore rating. I wonder how much of Cleveland's relatively high Parkscore is a legacy of the Tom Johnson administration's emphasis on local parks over a century ago:



https://www.tpl.org/city/lakewood-ohio


https://www.tpl.org/city/parma-ohio


https://www.tpl.org/city/medina-ohio



https://www.tpl.org/city/cleveland-heights-ohio


https://www.tpl.org/city/mentor-ohio


https://www.tpl.org/city/brecksville-ohio


//www.city-data.com/forum/cleve...m-johnson.html



I really wonder if these scores adequately consider metroparks, but don't have time to research the methodology thoroughly. E.g., it's interesting that 35 percent of Brecksville is park land (Brecksville Reservation of Cleveland Metroparks?), but it still has a low Parkscore rating. The ratings emphasize parks within a 10-minute walk, a fairly demanding criteria but certainly not putting much emphasis on access by bike, car or even public transportation. No emphasis appears on the amount of a community preserved as parkland.

[cubsguy81]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Actually, I'm not certain, even extremely doubtful, that Cuyahoga County parks are superior to those in Cook County (Chicago).


Chicago has something the equivalent of metroparks, and Cook County actually appears to have much more extensive park acreage than Cuyahoga County with at least 11 percent of Cook County preserved as just "forest areas," exclusive of local parks. I didn't research Greater Chicago park systems serving suburban counties. Note that the Cook County Forest Preserves protect 69,000 acres! Unlike with Cleveland Metroparks, which has extensive acreage outside of Cuyahoga County, all of this acreage apparently is within Cook County. Admittedly, Cook County is over twice as large as Cuyahoga County in land area. Of course, when you adjust for the relative size of the two counties, and begin including other Greater Cleveland metropark systems and the CVNP, the disparity will not be so great in Cook County's favor.



https://www.cookcountyil.gov/agency/forest-preserves


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest...of_Cook_County



https://www.chicagoparkdistrict.com/...chicagos-parks


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parks_in_Chicago


It's confusing comparing local parks with county/state parks and nature preserves.


Note that Cleveland here rates lower than Chicago in "Parkscores," but this score seemingly only considers parks within a specific city. Cleveland ranks much higher than any Greater Cleveland suburb that I could find, with 83 percent of Clevelanders living within a 10-minute walk of a park. Cleveland is the second highest ranked city in Ohio, after number 8 Cincinnati where 87 percent of residents live within a 10-minute walk of a park. Chicago is ranked number 5, with 98 percent of residents located within a 10-minute walk of a park!!!



https://news.wttw.com/2020/05/20/chi...w-ranking-says


https://www.tpl.org/parkscore


https://www.tpl.org/city/cleveland-ohio


Some other Greater Cleveland cities (of cities checked, only Lakewood (75 percent of residents within a 10-minute walk of a park) comes close to Cleveland's Parkscore rating. I wonder how much of Cleveland's relatively high Parkscore is a legacy of the Tom Johnson administration's emphasis on local parks over a century ago:



https://www.tpl.org/city/lakewood-ohio


https://www.tpl.org/city/parma-ohio


https://www.tpl.org/city/medina-ohio



https://www.tpl.org/city/cleveland-heights-ohio


https://www.tpl.org/city/mentor-ohio


https://www.tpl.org/city/brecksville-ohio


//www.city-data.com/forum/cleve...m-johnson.html



I really wonder if these scores adequately consider metroparks, but don't have time to research the methodology thoroughly. E.g., it's interesting that 35 percent of Brecksville is park land (Brecksville Reservation of Cleveland Metroparks?), but it still has a low Parkscore rating. The ratings emphasize parks within a 10-minute walk, a fairly demanding criteria but certainly not putting much emphasis on access by bike, car or even public transportation. No emphasis appears on the amount of a community preserved as parkland.

I'm extremely familiar with the Forest Preserve system in Cook County, it's a real treasure. We are talking about large swaths of land that are completely preserved with only a paved multi-use path in them. They often are integrated into surrounding neighborhoods making them accessible without a car. In fact, very few have more than a parking lot at a trailhead. There are no through streets or driving in most Cook County Forest Preserves the way the metroparks here are setup. The trails also go deep into the woods, instead of alongside a road.

There are some great spots in the Cleveland Metroparks and there is more topography making for some neat areas, but Chicago has it beat in terms of access, maintenance (controlled burns), and vast scale of acres.

[cubsguy81]

Originally Posted by sheena12

Several years ago, we decided two things. We wanted to stay in Ohio as our primary residence, but we wanted to move to Cleveland.

Then COVID happened and everything went on the back burner. At the same time, home prices in Cleveland, especially the Eastern inner ring suburbs, began to increase, as they did everywhere.

Initially, Cleveland home prices were insanely low. Now they are more in line with the rest of the country, but still low compared to almost anywhere else.

There are two schools of thought about the future - one group says to wait, home prices in Cleveland and the Cle "burbs will normalize and drop.

The others think that because Cleveland was so much lower than the rest of the country, the higher prices will stick, and the prices will continue to climb.

What is your opinion?

I don't think prices will come down much from where they are at as they were really too low for too long, but I doubt we see continued runaway prices. The fundamentals just aren't there.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by cubsguy81

I'm extremely familiar with the Forest Preserve system in Cook County, it's a real treasure. We are talking about large swaths of land that are completely preserved with only a paved multi-use path in them. They often are integrated into surrounding neighborhoods making them accessible without a car. In fact, very few have more than a parking lot at a trailhead. There are no through streets or driving in most Cook County Forest Preserves the way the metroparks here are setup. The trails also go deep into the woods, instead of alongside a road.

There are some great spots in the Cleveland Metroparks and there is more topography making for some neat areas, but Chicago has it beat in terms of access, maintenance (controlled burns), and vast scale of acres.

Given your familiarity with the Chicago forest preserve system, are there any parks/trails that you would highly recommend for visitors?


Also, given your reference to "topography," are many of the trails in the Chicago system devoid of interesting vistas? Where do the trails go, just loop around deep forest?


TIA!

[216facts]

Ahhh, Hunting Valley.

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real...re-104-million

The article is behind paid sub, but you can check the photos. Nice place. Can't imagine having over 150 acres in Hunting Valley. No doubt the bulk of the price was in the land.