Is Cleveland bad or is it just perception? (Lorain, Lakewood: unemployment, neighborhood)

[Peregrine]

Wow... you kind of are an *******, aren't you?

Yea, I am fully aware where Slavic Village is.

I was refering to negativite Clevelanders. Never seeming to see what is good about where we live and focusing far to much on the negative.

Where did I ever say it was perfect? I did not say that. I said "Compared to 20 years ago, this is nirvana". The difference in this city between now and then is astounding.
I am not blind...

[xwideopenskyx]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Wow... you kind of are an *******, aren't you?

Yea, I am fully aware where Slavic Village is.

I was refering to negativite Clevelanders. Never seeming to see what is good about where we live and focusing far to much on the negative.

Where did I ever say it was perfect? I did not say that. I said "Compared to 20 years ago, this is nirvana". The difference in this city between now and then is astounding.
I am not blind...

There goes that grade school mentality. Name calling? Really?
What is a negaTIVITE Clevelander? Grade school spelling, as well?

If you are not able to have an adult debate based on facts and real experience, then please don't waste my time.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by xwideopenskyx

What is a negaTIVITE Clevelander? Grade school spelling, as well?

Straight A's in English. I never took TYPING.

If you are not able to have an adult debate based on facts and real experience, then please don't waste my time.

In my real experience, ya' do kind of sound like an *******. (Sorry if ya' offends you... I've always kind of liked that slang).
It is the internet and I certainly could be wrong. and... what? Adults don't use "bad words"?

You misinterpreted what I said and called me overzealous and patronizing. When I was trying to get a smile....
(Come on.... "our children look similar?" Admit, that was funny!)

(2 things I am not. I will happily admit I am an optimist, though.)

Peace, Phoenician.

It's the internet. Stuff gets misinterpreted. Let's start over:

"Hi xwideopenskyx, Peregrine. Nice to meet you"

[WeSoHood]

LOL Driving around metro Cleveland people certainly aren't depressed or lacking things to do. Yes the inner city has it's problems... but so does every major city in the US. The media and sites like Forbes portray such a bad image of the city(Mike Polks Hastily Made Cleveland video doesn't help). People who haven't traveled or been around Northeast Ohio go off what they hear. They probably have no idea about the neighborhoods like Shaker Heights, Rocky River, Westlake, Bay Village, Olmsted Falls, Pepper Pike, Gates Mills, Berea, Beachwood, Concord, Seven Hills, Brecksville, Chargin Falls, Cleveland Heights, University Heights, etc... There are literally 30+ communities in northeast Ohio that people would be shocked if they knew existed.

And blah blah blah about Cleveland's population loss... The region in general isn't losing people AT ALL. The crime in the metro is MUCH safer than most major cities. The cost of living is VERY affordable. There are sports teams, the Metroparks, Lake Erie, fine dining, museums, music venues, etc.. But Clevelanders (and elsewhere alike) only hear about crime, poverty, horrible schools, etc.. which are only concentrated to a small population of the entire region. I've heard people on City Data claim they only saw abandoned buildings and crime even in the suburbs when they visited.. Right then I knew they were lying and never actually been here.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by kerensa

I think one problem might be that Cleveland is a driving city. There's not much that is concentrated in just one area where you could spend all day. Ohio City/Coventry/Cedar Lee, Chagrin Falls, Shaker Square, W 4th (etc) are all just a few blocks, so you have to constantly drive between all the destinations. There may only be one or two restaurants or shops in one place that are interesting. It also makes it harder if you are new to the city to find the interesting things, because they are not grouped together.

I also think many native Clevelanders rely on the nostalgia factor - they grew up doing this or that, so now it still holds a draw for them, even if it's not that great anymore. Then when they recommend this thing to newcomers (and it sucks now), the newcomers get a bad perception of the city. When we first moved here we quickly learned to avoid all the restaurants recommended by Cleveland natives (example: Corky & Lenny's) as they were almost always atrocious.

You couldn't be more wrong, Kerensa... and btw, the ONE neighborhood you conveniently left out, where visitors literally spend DAYS and can't exhaust is University Circle, probably the greatest concentration of museums, cultural and educational institutions in the nation -- an area that's working on improving its retail entertainment district... also, U. Circle is a few blocks from Little Italy, which is also one of Cleveland's lively neighborhoods. (and btw, both areas are just a short BUS RIDE down the hill from Coventry, another great area...

I stress the bus, because contrary to your point, you DON'T have to drive. That's MYTH. Shaker Square, Ohio City and Downtown (including E. 4th, Warehouse District, Rock Hall/Science Center/Voinovich Park, Playhouse Sq, etc), and University Circle are all directly on rapid transit rail lines. Other strong/up n' coming areas like Detroit-Shoreway (including blossoming Battery Park on the Lake), Edgewater/Gold Coast and downtown Lakewood, are either close to the Rapid or a short bus ride away (and on major, frequent, sometimes 24-hour RTA bus routes, as well)...

... and how you figure a distant, exurban suburb like Chagrin Falls fits into the mix, is beyond me. It's a quaint village, but is NOT on the top of most visitor/local's list of MUST DO neighborhoods of Greater Cleveland.

And as for nostalgia, I have no idea what you're talking about... in the 80s when I grew up there, areas like E. 4th, Warehouse District, Ohio City and Detroit-Shoreway were all dumpy areas -- downtown, though it bustled during the day, was positively dead at night; no-one lived there. I have no nostalgia for that -- and it's nothing like it is today; w/ stores, shops, restaurants and outdoor plazas...

I wish people would give a little more thought before posing an opinion just for the sake of weighing in.

[costello_musicman]

^Great Post!

Also ironicly, altough you alluded to it, most of the areas listed are EASY access to public transportation:

Downtown (E. 4th, W. 6th, Playhouse Square, etc)
Shaker Square (!!!!)
University Circle/Little Italy
Ohio City
Cleveland State University

And to a lesser extent, but still very easy:

Tremont
Coventry
Cedar-Lee
Edgewater
North Collinwood

[mikemeatball]

I was going to Indians game last Saturday.

Well, I have to say that I am very surprised to see so many people in downtown happily enjoying their dinner outdoor.

It also happened to be Browns game night. There were many police patrolling the street.

It was very funny to see some bus with shouting drunk kids and a sign on the side as "drink safe bus" or something like that.

[Peregrine]

I also think Tower City has been there so long that people have forgotten what it used to be.
It had one restaraunt, one diner, one newstand and miles of concrete. It is a palace compared to what it was.

[mikemeatball]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

I also think Tower City has been there so long that people have forgotten what it used to be.
It had one restaraunt, one diner, one newstand and miles of concrete. It is a palace compared to what it was.

Actually, I dropped my wife and kids down right by the field. Then I park my car at the RTA station. It only cost me 10$.

Then I try to walk through the tower city to outdoor. I mistakenly penetrated all the way to the other side of the street and lost my orientation. So I just kept walking, and hit a club with many women in white gown (what the heck is that for), seems like they are having a good upper scale party or something like that. Then I passed many brown fans who walked perpetually and vertically towards the direction I was heading. Then I saw the Progressive field on my far right, so I took a short cut street and found many dinners dining right by the side of the street. I even saw my doctor with his wife/girl friend/whoever passing me.

Very nice downtown other than three section 8 residents-like guys sitting at some street corner. I actually buy a whole set of Nike short for this one night event. I am surprised to see so many loyal Tribute fans judging by their league standing. I was almost broken into tear during the firework show when they played sweet home Alabama. I just moved from Alabama to Ohio months ago, damn it.

Darn impressive Indians game night.

[PhillytoCincy]

I was also currently in downtown Cleveland on business.... on Saturday, Sunday, and I am currently here as well. The Downtown area is awesome. Playhouse Square is awesome. I counted 4 major threatres on Euclid, and one over by Prospect. The second largest theatre district in the country says something. I saw the fireworks from Progressive Field the other night when the Indians won, and there were plenty of people out and about enjoying the great weather today.