Cleveland tops another list (Green, Ashtabula: live, malls, bus)

[Minervah]

Originally Posted by ggrogg

I think I will keep our new location to myself as it seems like fuel for a fire I no longer wish to feed. I could continue but some people just hear what they want...myself included.

I may not be right. The mass exodus of people says something about the area. I will leave it at that.

I am sorry you feel that way. But the place you have chosen is the place you feel is best for you. No one would argue that. I live in Portland Oregon where people are willing to camp out on the streets just for the opportunity of living here. But I am looking to move as soon as I find a place that is better for me.

Just as Cleveland is not for you, Portland is not for me. That doesn't mean either place is all bad or all good. It depends upon what the individual is looking for. When you put down Cleveland so badly, people who live here and like it are made to feel defensive. Because you have made up your mind that it is an unworthy place, you are criticizing their choices. Cleveland isn't for you, we get that but it is obviously for some so you can't make such sweeping generalizations that Cleveland is all bad any more that people can say Portland is all good.

Wherever you are moving to if you think it's right for you then it is. But Cleveland is also right for other people. Anyway, you take a chance wherever you go. And the place you think is wonderful today may be awful years from now. I hope you find what you are looking for in your new place. I hope I do too; and for me maybe that place will be Cleveland.

[canudigit]

Originally Posted by Minervah

I am sorry you feel that way. But the place you have chosen is the place you feel is best for you. No one would argue that. I live in Portland Oregon where people are willing to camp out on the streets just for the opportunity of living here. But I am looking to move as soon as I find a place that is better for me.

Just as Cleveland is not for you, Portland is not for me. That doesn't mean either place is all bad or all good. It depends upon what the individual is looking for. When you put down Cleveland so badly, people who live here and like it are made to feel defensive. Because you have made up your mind that it is an unworthy place, you are criticizing their choices. Cleveland isn't for you, we get that but it is obviously for some so you can't make such sweeping generalizations that Cleveland is all bad any more that people can say Portland is all good.

Wherever you are moving to if you think it's right for you then it is. But Cleveland is also right for other people. Anyway, you take a chance wherever you go. And the place you think is wonderful today may be awful years from now. I hope you find what you are looking for in your new place. I hope I do too; and for me maybe that place will be Cleveland.

Great post! I hope you find the perfect place for you.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by ZnGuy

Looks like your reason for moving is well thought out and I will only say that many others have done the same and are very glad they made the move. We like Cleveland and fortunately get to visit often and my son and I are still great fans of the Cavs, Browns. We really liked the area we lived (Chagrin)very much but come Jan-Apr all you hear is complaining about the grey, cold, snow. We decided to do something about it. I will say weather was huge factor in our move and many of others that located here. When we were trying to figure out where in South to locate (in '04) we decided it was important to go to a sizeable city that was very transient, so as we would not be a minority (yankee) and most people we meet have common interest and are motivated to meet new people. At the time my wife retired from her corporate job and fortunately for me I could live just about anywhere east of the Mississippi. It may seem like a radical decision for some to make the move due to leaving family, friends and the concern if you are making the right decision. For many years this area was seeing 50,000+ people moving here each year, some quiting jobs up north and finding job here, many to find great climate, low cost of living, lower taxes and a change. I certainly would not moved without a job lined up or 6-12 mos. of funds to live on while you search for job. As I have said before, the move has been great for us and most people we meet. Best of luck in your move.

Two points.

The economy in North Carolina has slowed down quite a bit and just in the past year the unemployment rate in Charlotte has been as high, or higher, than many Great Lakes cities, including Cleveland. Wachovia is gone and never coming back, and it's only a matter of time before Bank of America packs up for NYC (probably next decade or two).

Second, the Carolinas are still the South, no matter how much you claim the population is "transient." And the locals, though quickly becoming outnumbered, are openly becoming annoyed with the migration of Northerners.

I'm not going to touch on the much harped upon weather point, because although your opinion is exaggerated, it's just that, an opinion, not a fact.

[Clevelander17]

I have an idea where ggrogg is moving. Kind of funny that they don't want to mention it, however. But like I said before, different strokes for different folks.

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

I have an idea where ggrogg is moving. Kind of funny that they don't want to mention it, however. But like I said before, different strokes for different folks.

Where? How do you know?

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

Where? How do you know?

tcb, check your personal messages.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by ggrogg

I think I will keep our new location to myself as it seems like fuel for a fire I no longer wish to feed. I could continue but some people just hear what they want...myself included.

I may not be right. The mass exodus of people says something about the area. I will leave it at that.

What "mass exodus?" 2.7% is not a mass exodus. Also, the real question is where are they moving to? If they're leaving Cleveland Proper to relocate to a suburb 10 miles away, it isn't exactly an exodus. The entire county lost a grand total of 24,000 people over the past 5 years...down to 1,332,540 from 1,356,860. Big deal.

The real story of our area is the re-gentrification of the downtown and surrounding areas. It is not the fact that a small percentage of malcontents have moved away.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

And even with the air conditioning there's a good chance that they're all going to be facing serious water issues probably sometime this century.

Many already are.

Originally Posted by The Cactus Leaguer

Actually, I remember reading somewhere that climates like Phoenix were more energy efficient than colder climates like Cleveland (sorry I can't find the link, and I might be confusing carbon w/energy efficiency - it's late).

Anyway, I'm not saying who is right or wrong, just curious if you had something that supported your claim. I can see your point from a "put on a sweater versus running the AC" perspective, but not necessarily from a "crank the furnace/fireplace (regardless of the fuel source) versus running the AC" perspective. Plus there are other ways to cool off in Phoenix (swamp coolers work great except during the short monsoon season, swimming pools, etc.) Thanks in advance for your reply.

-Greg (from the year round mild climate of Portland )

I could go into the technical aspects as to why. But, at the risk of being overly verbose, I'll just tell you that it takes roughly twice the unit energy to cool an area via DX cooling (the typical home AC cooling type) than it does to heat the area with a direct-fired furnace (both being of reasonable efficiency).

Swamp coolers are only effective in the few areas that are dry and can afford a drastic increase in a room's relative humidity without affecting the comfort of the internal environment. Even then, they can still be less efficient than a direct fired furnace (per degree), are only usually effective for 20 degree differentials, are usually high maintenance, can use a substantial amount of water (another thing the south has little of) and are quite expensive for a whole house, two-stage unit. It's a novel and semi-effective idea, but you aren't going to talk too many people in hot climates out of conventional AC.

[high mileage]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

What "mass exodus?" 2.7% is not a mass exodus. Also, the real question is where are they moving to? If they're leaving Cleveland Proper to relocate to a suburb 10 miles away, it isn't exactly an exodus. The entire county lost a grand total of 24,000 people over the past 5 years...down to 1,332,540 from 1,356,860. Big deal.

The real story of our area is the re-gentrification of the downtown and surrounding areas. It is not the fact that a small percentage of malcontents have moved away.

You actually answered a question I was wondering about. Of course there will probably be some wimps that will move because of the weather, but Cleveland is an amazing city. I can't see that many people moving out of the region entirely.

I think some people become brainwashed by the media and essentially start thinking it's "uncool" to live in Cleveland and yearn to make the trendy move of moving to a warmer region.

BTW IMO Cleveland>Cincinnati. Cincinnati doesn't get slammed nearly as much as Cincy by the media but I'll still take Cleveland over Cincy.

Originally Posted by haineko

What the hell does sunshine have to do with mental well being? If someone needs to move somewhere because they are missing sunshine, then that's not the only thing they are missing. Maybe it has to do with missing genes or something. I hate heat and humidity, so I will never move to a place that is always like that. To each his own, in this regard.

As for this list, Akron and Canton's placement on this list is ridiculous. Akron is on the list b/c of high taxes and Lebron James (if the Cavs don't get the championship). Canton b/c only 18% of the people here have college degrees and some other BS. I can guarantee you that there are many places in this country that would qualify in that category. Downtown Akron has been virtually rebuilt, University of Akron has grown substantially over the years. I love Akron, born and raised there but I live in Canton and it's not bad either. All the schools here have been rebuilt, crime rate drops by double digits every year. Great places to live, imo. I have never been to Cleveland, so I don't know much about it.

Sounds just like me. I lived in Charleston, S.C. for about a year and I loathed every bit of the oppressive heat and humidity. It was crazy how many Ohio plates I saw down there. The weather there just wasn't for me, summer was entirely too long. Call me crazy but I'll take Ohio's weather anyday over the weather in South Carolina. Even Greenville is hot and nasty during the summer; I guess by SC standards it's pleasant during the summer.


One thing, how were you born and raised in Akron and have never been to Cleveland?!?! And I thought it was bad with the amount of Cincy residents who've never made their way up there. I'm not even from Ohio and I've been to every corner of the state.

[ggrogg]

I have lived and breathed Cleveland for 52 years. I have stood up for it and taken abuse for it. That is not why i am leaving. I am not leaving because some of you feel the need to call me a "wimp" or make references to missing genes. I am every bit as tough as you, as I too, have lived in Cleveland for a long time. You like chocolate and I like vanilla...good enough. Ask yourselves this....do all of your friends feel the same as you? Given the choice, how many of your friends would move away? Every single person I know that moved away...every single one of them...has said they will never move back. It is oppressive here and your belittling me just proves my point.

"The U.S Census Bureau released new population estimates today that show Greater Cleveland has lost more people since the last Census than all but two metro areas in the country.
The Cleveland metro area (Cuyahoga, Geauga, Lake, Lorain and Medina counties) lost an estimated 59,852 residents from April 2000 to July 2008."

Here is the link. It is not all of the information available and it does suit my point when taken out of context but anyone can find something to argue their point. There are better places to live IN MY OPINION and I will be leaving for one of those places. You should be happy about it...or maybe you just like arguing?Metro Cleveland is 3rd nationally in population loss: Search the latest numbers | Data Central from The Plain Dealer - cleveland.com impact blog - cleveland.com