How do we fix Cleveland? (Savannah: crime, homes, buy)

[ggrogg]

This is a perfect example of why nothing gets done here. Arguing about how Cleveland isnt really that bad will not solve anything. Saying that another place is worse, does nothing to improve Cleveland. Yes...I am fat but look how fat that person is...they are much fatter than me!

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by The Cactus Leaguer

Population gain/loss by county, 2000-2009:

Cuyahoga -118,139
Geauga +8,165
Lake +9,264
Lorain +21,039
Medina +22,940
Portage +5,487
Summit -496
Total -51,740

Want to go further? Let's toss in the other counties in Wikipedia's definition of Northeast Ohio:
Ashtabula -1,961
Columbiana -4,353
Mahoning -20,825
Stark +1,334
Trumbull -14,957
Wayne +2,694
Subtotal -38,068

Combined total -89,808

Wow that's interesting, I stand corrected. It looks like the far majority of losses are from the urban core counties. A large number of people from the central counties are moving into the surrounding counties, and people from both (especially the central) are moving out of the area all together.

[The Cactus Leaguer]

My wife's family illustrates what you are talking about. In the 90's and 00's, they've had the following:

-Grandparents passed away (who lived in Parma)
-Cousins, Aunts, Uncles moved to Lake County
-Uncle moved to Summit County
-Parents moved to Medina County
-Sister moved to Pittsburgh
-Cousins moved to Southern Ohio, New Jersey, Colorado
-She moved to Oregon

They all lived in Cuyahoga County in 1990. So you had about half moving to surrounding counties, and half moving elsewhere.

We would move back under the right circumstances, but probably no closer than Brecksville/Broadview Heights.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by ggrogg

This is a perfect example of why nothing gets done here. Arguing about how Cleveland isnt really that bad will not solve anything. Saying that another place is worse, does nothing to improve Cleveland. Yes...I am fat but look how fat that person is...they are much fatter than me!

Discussions of any caliber are a good start. It's certainly better then NOT talking about it.
God save the internet.

What have you done, ggrogg, to help Cleveland?
Personally, and proudly, I bought a house in the city limits. I put my money where my mouth is.

[ggrogg]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Discussions of any caliber are a good start. It's certainly better then NOT talking about it.
God save the internet.

What have you done, ggrogg, to help Cleveland?
Personally, and proudly, I bought a house in the city limits. I put my money where my mouth is.

I worked downtown for 10 years at the corner of 19th and Carnegie. I went to school at ETI (downtown). Paying taxes and tuition. My job was taken away when the city used emminent domain to purchase the land and build the CSU arena. We then made a go of it near 9th and Carnegie (by Petersons Nuts) but times were tough and the business did not make it. The loss of the property was a devastating blow that could not be recovered from.

These things do not help the city now...they just show I am no stranger to the city.

The Cleveland Browns figured it out (I hope). Get someone with experience and have them build a plan. Pay them the money. Get an expert. Stop trying to patch things and stop the bickering.

I know of someone that has a boat. They had it docked on the west side. 6-8 years ago the city talked of how they were going to change the marina and upgrade everything...of course there would be construction and the fees would go up. My friend moved his boat thinking it would be problematic for a year or 2. Nothing happened. The deal never happened. Now I do not want to get into exactly where was this and what exact year blah blah blah. The point is....it takes forever and an act of God to get something done here. I dont know if the Medical Mart is good or bad but for crying out loud...do it or do something else. The river and lake made Cleveland. Find a way to use those resources once again.

If Cleveland is to be a medical mega city then find a way to make people feel safe using those resources. My son was born at the Clinic (downtown) and was the last set of children born there. They moved the unit to Hilcrest the following week. I made the drive but never felt safe.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by ggrogg

The point is....it takes forever and an act of God to get something done here. I dont know if the Medical Mart is good or bad but for crying out loud...do it or do something else.

Bazillion % agree with that statement.
Or as my mom used to say: "s*** or get off the pot".

[west336]

My wife is from Cleveland, so I thought I'd offer some ideas.

For me, it's mainly investments in education and public spaces. Education is not only attractive because it breeds economic vitality, but also because it usually correlates well with safety (an image Cleveland doesn't really have right now). For public spaces, a little sidewalk cleaning, streetscapes, public parks, etc. can go a LONG way towards improving an image of a city, and it can be relatively cheaper than some of the other options out there.

[ggrogg]

Originally Posted by west336

My wife is from Cleveland, so I thought I'd offer some ideas.

For me, it's mainly investments in education and public spaces. Education is not only attractive because it breeds economic vitality, but also because it usually correlates well with safety (an image Cleveland doesn't really have right now). For public spaces, a little sidewalk cleaning, streetscapes, public parks, etc. can go a LONG way towards improving an image of a city, and it can be relatively cheaper than some of the other options out there.

You bring up a good point. The sides of route 2 are filled with trash. I dont just mean Mcdonnies bags or tumbling pages of newspaper. We have all seen mufflers, chunks of wood or metal, chairs, mattresses, tires and just about anything else you can think of. This has been an ongoing problem for as long as I can remember. Every winter the freeway accumulates all kinds of debris and needs to be cleaned. In the summer various organizations adopt a mile to clean. I know the suburbs (at least by me) are ok at doing this (nothing spectacular mind you) but it seems like once you hit cuyahoga county the effort completely stops. Go ahead and have the jails be responsible for state route cleaning.

[no1brownsfan]

I just would like to know what happened between now, and the late 80s and 90s. I mean, all we heard back then was Cleveland was the "Comeback City," and best place to raise a family blah blah blah. Visitors raved about the Flats, and how nice Cleveland was. Now all of a sudden we're back to being in the dumps again, and being labeled the most miserable city in the country (which I don't buy anyway). What changed? Does anyone think that the city pretty much killing the Flats had anything to do with it?

[treat]

I think killing the Flats definitely did nothing to raise morale or the image of the city. People say the Flats were crime-ridden, already dying, etc. etc. What are they currently? As far as I know, nothing. (I have not gone down to that area since all the buildings were abandoned and creepy after everything got shut down for the demolition.) In my opinion, better to have something there than yet another currently abandoned area. Naysayers on here can talk about the proposed plans for it all they want, but as of yet, nothing has materialized.

In my opinion, getting back to the original topic instead of fighting over census data (which is extremely straightfoward...) we need to completely overhaul the city. How?

-New politicians. Yes, they're all scum, but some are worse than others. We need just about all new people. I think we need younger politicians (less time for their souls to have rotted out) who actually care about the area, and aren't willing to make crappy deals for Cleveland out of desperation *cough*Medical Mart*cough*
-A new look. I'm not saying change architecture or start tearing down buildings, but make the city look less abandoned even if it is completely empty. Downtown seems like a bomb went off. All those empty storefronts? Fill them up with SOMETHING. Heck, just put giant pictures of people smiling in all the windows. Anything in those windows is better than just an empty space with a "Space Available" sign.
-A new mentality. Industry is gone and not coming back. We can go on and on about what great hospitals we have, but that's not enough. They're great, and they're not going anywhere, and we are very fortuante. However, we need another strength as well. We need to choose a field besides medicine that we want to dominate in and pursue it. There will be new industries. When those get created, we need those companies to be in Cleveland.
-We need to push local owners more. At the airport? Only allow local businesses. Make it easier for local businesses than chains at every opportunity. Help those local businesses grow, and there will be more jobs and they will be less likely to leave.
-Promote Cleveland better. Yes, we have Cleveland+, but in my opinion, they're not doing enough and the ads seem desperate. Everyone knows we are desperate and that turns them off. We need subtle advertising. Get more writers across the country to a travel article on Cleveland. Get more Cleveland real estate written about (push our historic homes and cheap prices). In this instance, I am all for bribes. Do what you need to do. Find an indentity and stick with it. New York is lively, San Francisco is unique, Savannah is romantic, etc. We should push the identity that we're dirty in a cool way. All those little hipsters out there, we have downtown living with a gritty identity. You can seem cool AND tough yet not get stabbed (which brings me to my next point...)
-We need to do something about the crime. I don't know what, but something. It may not seem that bad, but it has a reputation. Quiet it.
-We need to focus on bringing and keeping youth here.
-We need to protect what we already have and not let it detoriate.
-As for schools... push that we have a lot of private school options. Not many cities offer that.
-When building new buildings, try to use architecture similar to the surroundings... don't kill the charm.
-Bring things back downtown. All the department stores used to be there, and now they're gone. Development has been lost to the suburbs. Try to bring it back.

To be frank, what's going to help will be to try and reverse white flight and bring people back downtown. So many areas of downtown have been lost to uneducated, immoral people that are eating away at this city. They don't maintain their homes, they participate in crime, they don't contribute anything. Chase them out or do something about it. It's why people don't feel safe living downtown - too much crime, too many people being nasty to each other. Cleveland Schools shouldn't have to do the work of parents, but they need to. Students need to be taught how to be a good citizen and how to overcome the challenges in their life to be one.

I've gone on for way too long... and I am sure to have offended some people with this.