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Arkansas was never part of the Big 12...
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Really?! Thanks for the tip, Skippy. Your keen insight would explain why all the Big 12ers have been looking at me funny for so many years when I randomly yelled out WPS with hog nose in tow!
I meant to our region more than anything. Arkansas is a lot closer to the Oklahoma schools in distance and culture than the folks over there on the eastside. There is a perception among some Oklahoma and Texas fans that Arkansas belongs with us even though they really don't. Whenever there is talk of realignment Arkansas always comes up.....which they've, obviously, turned the Big 12 down a time or two now. Hope that clears up the fog for you.
Just for funzies, however, Oklahoma was a charter member of the Southwest Conference. Look into it.
I was just giving you a hard time... no need to justify why you want Arkansas. I understand
Although I disagree about the culture. But that's a different convo.
As an Arkansas alumnus who was born and raised in Oklahoma, I gotta say I too disagree, there is a big difference in the culture between the two states, and honestly aside from that brief period where you had the rivalry between the Switzer and Lou Holtz teams Arkansas and Oklahoma just don't have a lot of football history or tradition either.
The only reason it may seem like there's more of a connection is because you do have a large contingent of Arkansas alumni in cities like Tulsa, for example.
As an Arkansas alumnus who was born and raised in Oklahoma, I gotta say I too disagree, there is a big difference in the culture between the two states, and honestly aside from that brief period where you had the rivalry between the Switzer and Lou Holtz teams Arkansas and Oklahoma just don't have a lot of football history or tradition either.
The only reason it may seem like there's more of a connection is because you do have a large contingent of Arkansas alumni in cities like Tulsa, for example.
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The only reason it may seem like there's more of a connection is because you do have a large contingent of Arkansas alumni in cities like Tulsa, for example.
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^^^
This is exactly what I was getting at. Also, Arkansas historically has done a decent job of recruiting some of the better players from the Tulsa area....even beating out OU on occasion. Someone not from these parts wouldn't understand that though.
As an Arkansas alumnus who was born and raised in Oklahoma, I gotta say I too disagree, there is a big difference in the culture between the two states, and honestly aside from that brief period where you had the rivalry between the Switzer and Lou Holtz teams Arkansas and Oklahoma just don't have a lot of football history or tradition either.
The only reason it may seem like there's more of a connection is because you do have a large contingent of Arkansas alumni in cities like Tulsa, for example.
Also, while I lived in Texas for many years, I had previously talked with an AR alumnus over this issue of being tied in regionally with the SEC. I don't know how old you are E_Cuyler, but my friend is almost 50 so the gap in age may explain the difference of opinion of some of us "older folk" from Oklahoma/Arkansas/Texas.
Anyway, he said that he didn't "feel" like Arkansas fit well in Southeastern Conference. He said there was a little affinity to Louisiana, but much less than what he felt with rivalries with Texas schools and the culture was markedly different from Oklahoma/Texas, which he said were the most like his home-state of Arkansas. He said this primarily evidenced by the fact that his Hogs had no natural rival. He said the LSU rivalry always felt "forced".....was the word he used, I believe (conversation I had with him a little over two years ago so I'm trying to remember how he phrased it). Furthermore, his experience gels perfectly with a friend of mine who is from Louisiana and an LSU grad.....(I believe it's been well over 15-20 years since he graduated). He commented that Arkansas, as much as the SEC Brass has tried to make it so, has never really felt like a rival, and in his estimation, never would.
Maybe all of this will pan out more with time, but I don't think younger people today give much thought to the cultural epicenters that were at the root of regional college football for so many years. I think that is what has disgusted me more than anything with the realignment junk.....regions moving in upon regions and staking their claim on land/culture that was never meant to be theirs. Missouri and A&M in the SEC? Very strange (probably how Arkies felt when they moved over to the SEC and clearly, at least in the mind of some, they may still feel out of place). WVU in the Big12? Strange. The potential move of Florida St. to the Big 12? Very strange. All of this may sound very narrow minded in light of today's excessive transplantation, but I've always liked the differences in homogenized culture of regional locales throughout our great country; and I would like to preserve it.....even when it comes to college football. That train has done passed through though. Finally, I know it's all about money, but that doesn't make it any more right in my view.
Alright, enough musings for now. Just passing that along as my experience and knowledge from friends/grads from AR/LA that might provide a little bit more perspective on the matter.
There was a lot of complaint within Arkansas about the move to the SEC when it first happened, but I think that was due to losing games those first couple of seasons. That's when I was a student there so I heard a lot of it, "Why did we leave..." etc.
It has taken nearly 20 years for them to really start to contend [when they won the West in the mid-90s it was more of a fluke related to the whole West being pretty bad that year] and even now they haven't quite made the next step.
I would guess that many in the traditional SEC schools were probably not happy about Arkansas joining up either.
At least with A&M joining they can restart one of the old SWC rivalries. That's actually a pretty smart move for that reason, because I do agree that Arkansas has not really had a true rival in the SEC. There was actually a pretty good mini-rivalry with SC early on just because both teams were new and were playing at around the same level but it fizzled out.
There was a lot of complaint within Arkansas about the move to the SEC when it first happened, but I think that was due to losing games those first couple of seasons. That's when I was a student there so I heard a lot of it, "Why did we leave..." etc.
It has taken nearly 20 years for them to really start to contend [when they won the West in the mid-90s it was more of a fluke related to the whole West being pretty bad that year] and even now they haven't quite made the next step.
I would guess that many in the traditional SEC schools were probably not happy about Arkansas joining up either.
At least with A&M joining they can restart one of the old SWC rivalries. That's actually a pretty smart move for that reason, because I do agree that Arkansas has not really had a true rival in the SEC. There was actually a pretty good mini-rivalry with SC early on just because both teams were new and were playing at around the same level but it fizzled out.
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I would guess that many in the traditional SEC schools were probably not happy about Arkansas joining up either.
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Absolutely. I have heard many a SEC Purist affirm this very thing.
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because I do agree that Arkansas has not really had a true rival in the SEC
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True again.
These are some of the main reasons, albeit unsuccessfully, why the Big 12 has tried to bring Arkansas back to a more natural regional conference affiliation.
I think even that though would be a hard sell even if it were a possibility, just because the Big 12 itself is not really a "natural" conference, it's been an attempt to merge two different conferences while trying to preserve the traditions of both, with mixed results. Unfortunately over the years since the Big 12 was formed, it's really been the Big 8 traditions that have struggled the most, and I'm sure Oklahoma was a much bigger influence in the Big 8 than it is in the Big 12.
As far as Arkansas in the SEC goes, you would think Tennessee would be a good rival for them, but I guess the Vols already have enough long-standing rivalries and traditions. It's interesting to note that Arkansas had a series with Texas for a few seasons this past decade, and there was a really huge response to them playing again.
BTW, I agree with the comment about Arkansas/LSU being an attempt to create a rivalry where one didn't really exist. I know during my time as a student there was no real added excitement to playing LSU, and no one treated it like a big rivalry game.
The games that people got fired up for were the ones against the top teams, whomever they happened to be---while I was there it was usually Alabama.
The only reason there's been more success in pushing Arkasnas/LSU as a rivalry in recent years is because LSU has been a top team.
I think even that though would be a hard sell even if it were a possibility, just because the Big 12 itself is not really a "natural" conference, it's been an attempt to merge two different conferences while trying to preserve the traditions of both, with mixed results. Unfortunately over the years since the Big 12 was formed, it's really been the Big 8 traditions that have struggled the most, and I'm sure Oklahoma was a much bigger influence in the Big 8 than it is in the Big 12.
As far as Arkansas in the SEC goes, you would think Tennessee would be a good rival for them, but I guess the Vols already have enough long-standing rivalries and traditions. It's interesting to note that Arkansas had a series with Texas for a few seasons this past decade, and there was a really huge response to them playing again.
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I'm sure Oklahoma was a much bigger influence in the Big 8 than it is in the Big 12.
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Nah, Oklahoma has plenty of influence in the Big 12.....perhaps too much along with Texas. (I honestly can say this even as a Sooner fan, most Horns won't admit it though because they don't care.) Nebraska was (is) the school which felt (feels) WAY TOO slighted in terms of its power/influence diminishing in the conference. Given Nebraska's storied tradition I think the Cornhuskers had (have) every right to feel this way. The Big 12 was too Big 12 South-centric. That was the main issue. Should've been an East/West divisional alignment and I'm guessing things would have worked out a lot better. Who knows.
This has obviously been the toughest part in the Big 12 sticking together. Just a few egomaniacs at the top and everyone else getting the crumbs. Of course, this is why Oklahoma and to a greater extent Texas, always want the Big 12 to be around.....couldn't pull that crud in the PAC whatever or the SEC.
BTW, I agree with the comment about Arkansas/LSU being an attempt to create a rivalry where one didn't really exist. I know during my time as a student there was no real added excitement to playing LSU, and no one treated it like a big rivalry game.
The games that people got fired up for were the ones against the top teams, whomever they happened to be---while I was there it was usually Alabama.
The only reason there's been more success in pushing Arkasnas/LSU as a rivalry in recent years is because LSU has been a top team.
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BTW, I agree with the comment about Arkansas/LSU being an attempt to create a rivalry where one didn't really exist.
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Exactly.
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Thanks for the tip, Skippy. Your keen insight would explain why all the Big 12ers have been looking at me funny for so many years when I randomly yelled out WPS with hog nose in tow!
from Oklahoma/Arkansas/Texas.
