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As long as NBC is at their door, they have zero incentive to join one.
Here's what the average sports fan, for whatever reason, doesn't realize: every school in the SEC and Big Ten, from Florida and Ohio State down to Vanderbilt and Northwestern, now makes close to TWICE as much TV money as Notre Dame does from its NBC contract. 10 years ago, Notre Dame's payout from NBC was special, but it's now chump change compared to what ABC/ESPN is paying to both the SEC and Big Ten, the CBS contract with the SEC and the revenues that the Big Ten is taking in from the Big Ten Network.
Here are summaries of Notre Dame's TV contract compared to the other conferences:
Now, Notre Dame is still doing quite fine financially, but being independent in and of itself is no longer a financial advantage. It was easy for the school to play the "independence or die" card when it was making more money than anyone else. However, I don't think that Notre Dame is going to put up with being smoked by Northwestern and Vandy on the TV front for very long. The emotionally-based ND alumni might not get this now (or ever get it), but the numbers-based school's administration is very aware of these financial numbers. The academic faculty actually supported Notre Dame joining the Big Ten when the conference invited the school in the 1990s because it would've improved the school's research opportunities (as all Big Ten schools plus original conference member University of Chicago share resources as part of an academic consortium called the CIC), but it didn't make financial sense at the time. It's a different world now, though.
Penn State aside, I think the Big Ten is actually pretty comfortable keeping itself focused on the midwest.
It depends. If the Big Ten ever decides that ND will never ever join, then I think it's way more likely that it will look to Syracuse or Rutgers as a 12th member because of that East Coast connection. Why? Because much of the conference's fortunes are based upon getting the Big Ten Network into as many cable homes as possible - pure and simple. The NYC/NJ market is the potential gold mine out there on that front.
Of course, Notre Dame is a national brand name, so talking about the "markets" that it would bring is irrelevant. The Irish arguably have more fans in NYC over any other school and they could be leveraged to bring the Big Ten Network into every home in the country (not just the Midwest and Northeast).
As a Michigan fan, I'd rather not add ND - another doormat - to the Big Ten. The Big Ten already has a reputation of being a weak conference, adding another weak program to the mix wouldn't exactly ameliorate that image. This is not 1972, or even 1988. Today, ND is mediocre at best, nothing more than another Virginia, Vanderbilt, or Purdue. If the Big Ten has to add another school, I would like to see Cincinnati or Pittsburgh taken from the Big East, or even long-distance Boise State. Those schools would be more competitive than ND.
I agree with you, to an extent -
Notre Dame has a much larger fanbase than Purdue, Vanderbilt, Cincy, or UVa. Those fans are revenue generators, which is the #1 goal of an athletic conference.
The Big Ten has a lot to gain geographically by adding Notre Dame. Earlier posters said "there are already two schools from Indiana in the Big Ten.." ...totally missing the point. Notre Dame has a huge Catholic fanbase spread all across the nation, especially in places like New Jersey and Louisiana, where Notre Dame is sort of a college football anomaly.
It's great that the Big 10 feel some commonality to us here in the Pac-10, but truth be told, we don't feel the same way. Yes, we have the Rose Bowl, but I feel most Pac-10 fans look at the Big 10 as the sacrificial lamb. As a whole, the Pac-10 is far faster, tougher and just plain better if you compare the two conferences.
As delusional as some may view us, I believe most Pac-10 fans feel we are on par/if not close to the SEC. Arguably, both the SEC and Pac-10 have the fastest, most talented skill player athletes. The Big 10 is a conference of "3 yards and a cloud of dust."
As for the NCs, the myth of the Pac-1 is a little overblown. If you look at past teams, there have been other Pac-10 teams in the last 10 years that have been domnate besides USC: 2000 Oregon State (with Chad Johnson, Housmanzadeh who destoyed ND in Fiesta by 30+ points and IMO was the best team at the end of the year), 2001 Oregon (with Joey Harrington who got jobbed by the BCS), 2007 (with Dennis Dixon) who ran into just plain bad luck. Now, I am not saying that these teams would have won, but what I am saying is that there have been three other times that the Pac-10 had the talent to be a NC winner.
I do believe regardless of who wins the Civil War tonight, Ohio State will be beaten. If the Ducks are lucky enough to rep the Pac-10, it will be very clear the Pac-10 has little in common with the Big 10 because I do not think the Rose Bowl would be close.
I do agree that both the Pac and Big 10 places higer standards on academics than most other conferences and I do see a similarity there.
this is one Big Ten fan that would love to disagree with your assessment here, but I'm afraid I don't have a pot to pee in. we're guilty. as charged.
Here's what the average sports fan, for whatever reason, doesn't realize: every school in the SEC and Big Ten, from Florida and Ohio State down to Vanderbilt and Northwestern, now makes close to TWICE as much TV money as Notre Dame does from its NBC contract. 10 years ago, Notre Dame's payout from NBC was special, but it's now chump change compared to what ABC/ESPN is paying to both the SEC and Big Ten, the CBS contract with the SEC and the revenues that the Big Ten is taking in from the Big Ten Network.
Here are summaries of Notre Dame's TV contract compared to the other conferences:
Now, Notre Dame is still doing quite fine financially, but being independent in and of itself is no longer a financial advantage. It was easy for the school to play the "independence or die" card when it was making more money than anyone else. However, I don't think that Notre Dame is going to put up with being smoked by Northwestern and Vandy on the TV front for very long. The emotionally-based ND alumni might not get this now (or ever get it), but the numbers-based school's administration is very aware of these financial numbers. The academic faculty actually supported Notre Dame joining the Big Ten when the conference invited the school in the 1990s because it would've improved the school's research opportunities (as all Big Ten schools plus original conference member University of Chicago share resources as part of an academic consortium called the CIC), but it didn't make financial sense at the time. It's a different world now, though.
thanks for reiterating the point I made about the conference scools being more than competitive with ND in tv revenue.
and yes, the CIC would have been a real advantage to ND (btw, other than the U of C, it has one other non-B10 school in it: UIC).
Only disagreemet with you: I don't see how Northwestern can be put in the same breathe as Vandy. The way I see it among the BCS privates, NU is more like Stanford....relatively competitive in its conference, a serious football program. I'd see at lower level, mostly paralleling Duke. Wake's successes have been so recent so I'm not sure where I put them. Syracuse has been down for awhile. I'd put USC, Miami, ND, and BC at the top of the privates.
I do believe regardless of who wins the Civil War tonight, Ohio State will be beaten. If the Ducks are lucky enough to rep the Pac-10, it will be very clear the Pac-10 has little in common with the Big 10 because I do not think the Rose Bowl would be close.
Yikes - I don't think that will be the case, but we shall see. Ohio State's "problems" have been way overblown - there aren't very many teams anywhere that haven't struggled against the SEC champ, USC and Texas over the past 3 years. We'll see how they do when they aren't having to play one of the top 3 teams in the country.
I'm very interested in tonight's Civil War as a neutral observer, though. It's incredible to see that the 3 BCS conferences that don't have annual conference title games (Big Ten, Pac-10 and Big East) have all had or will have conference championship games this year. Think of the chances of that happening!
thanks for reiterating the point I made about the conference scools being more than competitive with ND in tv revenue.
and yes, the CIC would have been a real advantage to ND (btw, other than the U of C, it has one other non-B10 school in it: UIC).
Only disagreemet with you: I don't see how Northwestern can be put in the same breathe as Vandy. The way I see it among the BCS privates, NU is more like Stanford....relatively competitive in its conference, a serious football program. I'd see at lower level, mostly paralleling Duke. Wake's successes have been so recent so I'm not sure where I put them. Syracuse has been down for awhile. I'd put USC, Miami, ND, and BC at the top of the privates.
I think that you're right in terms of the state of their programs. I was just pointing out that as members of the SEC and Big Ten, both Vandy and Northwestern are making much more TV money than Notre Dame right now (so ND can't pass it off as simply being "big bad publics" like Ohio State and Florida).
I think that you're right in terms of the state of their programs. I was just pointing out that as members of the SEC and Big Ten, both Vandy and Northwestern are making much more TV money than Notre Dame right now (so ND can't pass it off as simply being "big bad publics" like Ohio State and Florida).
me too! I'd also like to see them in the Big 10 for all sports. But it will never happen. Too much bad blood. And ND is too big for it's britches now.
Have any of been keeping up with Chuck spewing crap ... badmouthing the university ... accusing pete carroll of living with a grad student in malibu? ugh ... shut up chuck. it's over. i don't understand why he's doing this now ... he knew what he was signing up for when he signed on as head coach. he know that ND is still living in the dark ages ....
bet NBC wishes it could break the ND contract like ND does with it's coaches.
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