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Old 04-28-2011, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,954 posts, read 20,673,069 times
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Kinda makes a trade school look like a better deal.......
"Is going to college a worthwhile investment? Is the education that our young people are receiving at our colleges and universities really worth all of the time, money and effort that is required? Decades ago, a college education was quite inexpensive and it was almost an automatic ticket to the middle class. But today all of that has changed. "

Student Loan Debt Hell: 21 Statistics That Will Make You Think Twice About Going To College
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:24 PM
 
Location: 89434
6,658 posts, read 4,744,096 times
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It's sad that lots of college graduates end up working in fast food joints or grocery stores and even a handful of them got a free ride, and they still can't find a good job. Even the ones that are taking tens of thousands of dollars of loans don't put a significant amount of effort in studying because they are working a few jobs (or spending loads of quality of study time socializing or partying instead)
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Old 04-28-2011, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,954 posts, read 20,673,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevdawgg View Post
It's sad that lots of college graduates end up working in fast food joints or grocery stores and even a handful of them got a free ride, and they still can't find a good job. Even the ones that are taking tens of thousands of dollars of loans don't put a significant amount of effort in studying because they are working a few jobs (or spending loads of quality of study time socializing or partying instead)
This should not be and wouldn't be if the rich hadn't exported all of America's manufacturing base out of the country in the rush to Globalization for Profit.

This is why I say a tech/trade school is now a better deal. These are jobs that are hard to export since they all are hands on type jobs.
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Old 04-28-2011, 06:00 PM
 
3,644 posts, read 10,936,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
This should not be and wouldn't be if the rich hadn't exported all of America's manufacturing base out of the country in the rush to Globalization for Profit.

This is why I say a tech/trade school is now a better deal. These are jobs that are hard to export since they all are hands on type jobs.
Um... yeah. College grads are having a hard time finding work because there is a small manufacturing base? Hmmm... Most college grads I know would not even CONSIDER a manufacturing job.
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Old 04-28-2011, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,954 posts, read 20,673,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sskkc View Post
Um... yeah. College grads are having a hard time finding work because there is a small manufacturing base? Hmmm... Most college grads I know would not even CONSIDER a manufacturing job.
Really? There is a need for collage grads to , now let me see, run the company, to keep the company books, to design the products, to supervise the help, to market the products etc. but if you don't think you would like this type of honest living then welcome to Mac Donald's so you can use your degree to flip Big Mac's.

Or you could use that college degree to become a banker and join the other thieves on Wall Street. Ya, that would work......
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Old 04-28-2011, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Central Ohio
10,833 posts, read 14,927,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
Kinda makes a trade school look like a better deal.......
I dunno, seems that many spend two years in trade school and still can't earn a decent living.

I want to be a plumber because plumbers charge $80/hour and stuff
Mod cut - removed copyrighted picture

Poor Gen Y here can't begin to fathom what a tough job that is.

He'll get out of school and if he is lucky he'll find a job paying $12/hour trenching lines. $12/hour because there are plenty out there that might be without the school but they got 20 years experience which is hard for any school to beat.

And if he thinks he is going to get into a union he can forget that unless he really knows someone that can push for him to get in and get a card. The truth is in some localities better than 50% of the union membership is sitting jobless on the bench.

About the $80 charge. That might be what the company charges but included in that charge is paying $30,000 for the truck, $800/month in gas bills, $30,000 for a minimum amount of tools, workers comp insurance, completed operations liability insurance, taxes, licenses and a host of other things you can not imagine unless you are in the field.

We pay our average experienced guy $25/hour, we have to charge $65/hour and even then we're really not making any profit. In fact I would argue we are losing money on hourly rate calls.

Let's say I send two guys to do a job for you that takes six hours. They come back to the shop, I bill you for 12 hours labor but everyone knows I am not going to send my guys home... they'll stand about waiting to clock out for their 8 hours and who can blame them?

So I charge you $780 but I pay my guys $400 then add another $100 for payroll taxes, insurance, workers comp and then add to it the monthly payment on the one ton truck along with the payment towards $30,000 in tools and you ain't seen nothing until you get the $1,200 gas bill on this 9 mpg monster.

Where we make money is new installations. On a $100,000 job $60,000 of that is material which I can mark up 25% using the $15,000 to offset the real labor costs. On jobs without that material mark up you better be selling labor for 250% of what you pay or you be losing your rear end.

Same with HVAC people.

Auto mechanics; how many does the world need anyway?

Many are saying trade school is the way to go without ever spending an hour on a construction site much less a day. GenY doesn't want to work that hard. It's 94 degrees in the shade but there isn't any shade. Humidity is 90% and for the next seven days I expect you to install an average of 200' of 8" C900 pipe every day. The job is 90 miles away so you need to be at the shop at 6:00 AM to catch a ride, you will be back home at 5:30 and for all that you'll be paid 8 hours.

You wouldn't believe the number of inexperienced newbies I've hired @ $12 who go to lunch their first day on the job and just never come back. The attitude today seems to be "why should I work that hard when I can live in mom's basement for free?"

So Geny would rather work at a McDonald's earning $8.50 because it is a whole lot easier. The difference is in my line of work you may start at $12 but if you are a good worker you can expect a $2/hr raise every year for 5 to 7 years but Geny is blind to this. It is all about "what do I get now?"

Gentlemen, it's a tough road and you better have a strong work ethic along with a tolerance for pain and being uncomfortable.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 04-29-2011 at 10:23 AM..
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Old 04-28-2011, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,725 posts, read 11,709,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
your point of view is so narrow.
Rep points for irony.
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Old 04-28-2011, 11:00 PM
 
919 posts, read 1,781,792 times
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Let's apply common sense to this post. If anyone reads articles dealing with the economy, many reference The Great Depression as a benchmark to compare the current economic climate. So if things are as bad, or worse, then one of the most desperate times in US history, they we have a depression. If so, there are few if any jobs in any field because consumers can't pay for services or products available. Therefore, why is anyone taking on debt for an education in order to apply to jobs that don't exist? Shouldn't the general sentiment be NOT to take on debt, to avoid it at all costs? The article states that the cost of a college education has risen nearly 1000% since 1978. Have wages increased that much in order for parents to save enough for their children's education? Has the average investment portfolio gone up 1000% in nearly 40 years so as to cash out and pay for a college education? Nope. So the prudent decision, the logical decision, is DONT GO TO COLLEGE GOD DAMN IT!!!! If you can't pay for it, if you have to take on debt in a Depression, then it's not for you, at least at this time. Either go part time to community college, spend your time studying on your own in order to pass placement exams which will allow you to not take classes, or just forget about the notion....
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Old 04-29-2011, 06:34 AM
 
5,938 posts, read 4,696,461 times
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There is an assumption that has been perpetuated for years...

"A college degree is an automatic ticket to middle class." - to quote someone else in this thread who also mocked the idea. That may have been true many many years ago. But the fact of the matter is that:

America cannot support all of these college graduates with jobs that require their skills or compensate them appropriately.

We are over-saturated with graduates with no work for them. And no, I'm not just talking about our current recession. This was true even before that. While there is something wrong with our economy and while people should be able to earn a living and find some level of comfort, the "American Dream" is out of reach for too many Americans.

The rate of the higher income job growth hasn't kept up with the population. But, all Americans need services. They need their restaurants, their dry cleaners, their hair stylists and gas stations, etc. The service industry is what has grown. That industry does not require a college degree.
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:49 AM
 
3,644 posts, read 10,936,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
Really? There is a need for collage grads to , now let me see, run the company, to keep the company books, to design the products, to supervise the help, to market the products etc. but if you don't think you would like this type of honest living then welcome to Mac Donald's so you can use your degree to flip Big Mac's.

Or you could use that college degree to become a banker and join the other thieves on Wall Street. Ya, that would work......
Most companies did not lay off the folks HERE that run the company or keep the books or design the products - those folks were offered relo packages back when the jobs moved. And you do NOT need a college degree to supervise "the help". Marketing a product does not require a move overseas.

So the way YOU see it, an American college degree is only good for either flipping burgers or joining thieves on Wall Street? So - sounds like folks in college are either 'suckers' or 'asking for it'.

The majority of these overseas moves happened years ago. Plenty of time between then and now for all these motormouths with all the answers to pony up and start their own companies. Of course - they couldn't compete.

Folks already complain about having to pay $20k for a car - can you imagine if those cars were built here 100% by unions demanding $35/hr plus mandatory overtime plus 9 weeks of paid vacation a year instead of the $5/hr with one week of vacation time they pay overseas? Talk about 'sticker shock'!

And I do know folks whose jobs were shipped overseas. It's been about a decade (or more in a couple cases) - they're all still complaining about it - blaming government. None of them trying to do anything for themselves, really. One complains that she was making $9/hr 'back then' - way overpaid for what she was doing, and thinks the problem is that minimum wage should be $20/hr - because she has NO CONCEPT that that type of nonsense is what has caused these problems in the first place!
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