News, Law School Grad Can't Find Job and sues her alma mater for $50 million. (skill, graduation)
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Two minutes worth of Googling would have revealed class certification was (unfortunately) denied in 2013, which is why I pointed out that it was a 4-year old post. Denial of such effectively ends the suit, which is unfortunate because schools like TJSL are predatory and fraudulent and should be shut down.
And it took 20 seconds to write the reply. Ultimately, the complained of act seems to happen multiple times per year in this country via lawsuits that make the news, which makes this thread, and my comment, relevant even in the event that the topic of thread has been resolved. While my response was directed at a comment referring to a case that was ultimately dismissed years ago, my response also represents a general sentiment on the practice as well. If I can resurrect a thread on the matter without starting a new one, I'll gladly do so. Now that it's clear that this case has been resolved, people are still free to state their opinions on such lawsuits in general as well as comment on their opinions of this case, regardless of whether it's been resolved.
I don't blame the woman for suing, and she may have some legit grounds. This Thomas Jefferson School of Law charges a tremendous amount for very poor results: Thomas_Jefferson_School_of_Law.
That's the thing. The fact that this law school's reputation and cost information are readily available online (and I'd expect anyone who is going to make such a significant investment in their future to conduct such research) is precisely the reason why I find it hard to sympathize with people in this situation.
I feel bad for students who fell for TJ Law's fraud a few years ago when law school job stats were very highly manipulated. But anyone who goes there now probably deserves what they get with the plain statistic available to anyone. But still, these bottom-feeding trash heaps know they're preying on more unintelligent and/or under-informed students and putting them into debt-slavery to pad their own pockets. Simply detestable.
How have to wonder how much the court and legal system, and the BAR are protecting schools like this....personally I find it fraudulent to be a terrible (anything) school and charge the same if not more than the top schools. We have a bottom of the barrel law school in my area that charges what med schools cost.....MED SCHOOLS!!!
How have to wonder how much the court and legal system, and the BAR are protecting schools like this....personally I find it fraudulent to be a terrible (anything) school and charge the same if not more than the top schools. We have a bottom of the barrel law school in my area that charges what med schools cost.....MED SCHOOLS!!!
The problem is that the professors at the bottom law schools are demanding salaries not too much out of line with those are higher-ranked law schools (if you look at the professors list at bottom and top-ranked schools, you'll see that's its fairly common for the overwhelming majority of professors to have graduated from T-14 law schools) and/or the parent university (or just the law school itself if its a stand alone school) simply wanting to maximize on school revenues.
Now, I think that schools like TJ and Cooley have a place in the legal world. And, to be fair, a not so insignificant percentage of the student body at each school (at least at Cooley) gets very a substantial aid package (up to a full ride). These schools provide an opportunity for many people who would and go on to make great lawyers, but who don't have the grades to get into better-ranked law schools (and I see Cooley grads, as one example, all throughout the legal field, from positions at the DOJ, which was a shocker to me, to plenty of well-known regional private practice jobs to government legal jobs throughout Michigan). Are many left on the outside looking in? Yes, but that's a risk that people take to pursue their dreams, and isn't something that I want to blame on the school anymore especially as jobs data, etc. for these schools is readily available public information. Still, I agree that its outrageous for schools like TJ to charge what they do for tuition.
The problem is that the professors at the bottom law schools are demanding salaries not too much out of line with those are higher-ranked law schools (if you look at the professors list at bottom and top-ranked schools, you'll see that's its fairly common for the overwhelming majority of professors to have graduated from T-14 law schools) and/or the parent university (or just the law school itself if its a stand alone school) simply wanting to maximize on school revenues.
So what? That's not the issue - the issue is that the schools see a law school as a profit center. Professor salaries don't matter. Law school overhead is generally pretty low as compared to other graduate schools, and schools make a ton of money off of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
Now, I think that schools like TJ and Cooley have a place in the legal world.
No, they don't. They are a ripoff, pure and simple. For TJSL, you have a 25.9% chance of actually having a legal career at all, much less in any type of desirable job. Cooley is even worse at 22.9%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
And, to be fair, a not so insignificant percentage of the student body at each school (at least at Cooley) gets very a substantial aid package (up to a full ride).
That's to entice them to come to the school, then a huge chunk of those kids lose their scholarship after failing to maintain a minimum required class standing, which is usually absurdly high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
These schools provide an opportunity for many people who would and go on to make great lawyers, but who don't have the grades to get into better-ranked law schools (and I see Cooley grads, as one example, all throughout the legal field, from positions at the DOJ, which was a shocker to me, to plenty of well-known regional private practice jobs to government legal jobs throughout Michigan).
Law school admissions is a numbers game. If you don't have great grades, then study the hell out of the LSAT until you get a good score and apply to schools that favor the LSAT over GPA. But if your options are Cooley or TJSL, then perhaps you just aren't meant to be a lawyer.
Entry-level legal jobs underwent a drastic shift over the past few years. Just because there is a Cooley grad at the DOJ doesn't make it likely, probable, or even close to possible that it would happen for a new graduate in this day and age. For people who graduated prior to 2003 or so, whatever they are doing now isn't likely to happen for a newly minted lawyer. Again, I'm going to reiterate that only 22.9% of Cooley grads found any type of legal job at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
Are many left on the outside looking in? Yes, but that's a risk that people take to pursue their dreams, and isn't something that I want to blame on the school anymore especially as jobs data, etc. for these schools is readily available public information. Still, I agree that its outrageous for schools like TJ to charge what they do for tuition.
So wait, why don't you want to blame the school for charging near-predatory tuition rates, doing everything they can to dupe or deceive prospective students into attending, and not making any effort to do things to help, like slashing tuition and cutting class sizes?
I blame the schools and the ABA. It's a money grab, plain and simple. The ABA needs to step in and shut down probably 60% of the schools operating today.
From there, though, her story has taken an unusual twist: Ms. Alaburda, 37, is the first former law student whose case against a law school, charging that it inflated the employment data for its graduates as a way to lure students to enroll, will go to trial.
Other disgruntled students have tried to do the same. In the last several years, 15 lawsuits have sought to hold various law schools accountable for publicly listing information critics say was used to pump up alumni job numbers by counting part-time waitress and other similar, full-time jobs as employment. Only one suit besides Ms. Alaburda’s remains active.
None of the other cases reached trial because judges in Illinois, Michigan and New York, where several cases were filed, generally concluded that law students had opted for legal education at their own peril, and were sophisticated enough to have known that employment as a lawyer was not guaranteed.
But a California judge let Ms. Alaburda’s suit proceed, brushing aside efforts by the law school to derail her claims.
Yes. If she wins there may be huge consequences for these low ranked law schools. If it is proven in court they falsified data to lure students, then they should be denied federal funding (student loans). This is already happening to certain online private schools.
These schools not only defraud students, they contribute to student debt defaults. Having students rack up high levels of debt that they cannot pay off (no job in the field) has consequences BEYOND the student, and even has systematic consequences.
Simply put these schools will need to be closed. The ABA has not recommend it because closing this ****ty schools would clearly put a lot of lawyers out of work. But it needs to happen, as shutting them down will get rid of the surplus of lawyers that have wrecked the legal profession.
Good for her. With a name like Thomas Jefferson. One would think the school is in Virginia. I would think it was BS school with it being in Cali.
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