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It's less the degree than where you choose to get it. If you attend Yale and rack up hundreds of thousands in debt to pursue a social work degree, then the return on your investments will be decidedly poor. If, on the other hand, you pursued that same degree at a state university with reasonable tuition, then you likely made an okay choice.
I'm pretty certain that, in this challenging economy, parents are not going to sit still for colleges that continue to raise tuition at a rate 3x inflation.
The name of the game is "Take public funding away, then make hard working people pay out of their pocket"
What's wrong with that... it punishes kids that have poor parents.
"Some politicians" constantly vote to take money away from education "to balance the budget" but never proposed to take money away from things that rich people need: Police, Firefighters, roads, highways, etc.
I've seen this thing play out over the last two years, in fact. A agrees (and maybe his working class parents) agree to 'invest' in a college education over four years time, thinking they can afford it. In year one, public funding drops and tuition fees are raised to cover the costs. In year two, same thing happens again, making it probably 30 percent more expensive to attend than it was even 2 years ago when the family made the big decision to pursue a college degree. The worst part about it is, there is much more uncertainty about whether that education will pay off than there was when I graduated 15 years ago. I have since pursued a master's degree, completed right smack dab in the middle of the financial collapse of 2008-2009. Had I known then what I know now, I wouldn't have gone back to school.
But I really feel for the undergrads. Accessibility to higher education is a large reason why America's legendary socioeconomic mobility has been as good as it has been over the last century, but that's coming to an end. I think there are other countries in the developed world that provide more opportunities for education and access to the middle class than ours, and it's sad. With Ronald Reagan and the Bush clan as cheerleaders, thirty plus years of Jack Welch's social Darwinism have really crushed our heart and soul. This country just keeps gutting the middle class, and it's going to pay for it one day. We probably already have paid for it; we just don't realize it yet.
I've seen this thing play out over the last two years, in fact. A agrees (and maybe his working class parents) agree to 'invest' in a college education over four years time, thinking they can afford it. In year one, public funding drops and tuition fees are raised to cover the costs. In year two, same thing happens again, making it probably 30 percent more expensive to attend than it was even 2 years ago when the family made the big decision to pursue a college degree. The worst part about it is, there is much more uncertainty about whether that education will pay off than there was when I graduated 15 years ago. I have since pursued a master's degree, completed right smack dab in the middle of the financial collapse of 2008-2009. Had I known then what I know now, I wouldn't have gone back to school.
But I really feel for the undergrads. Accessibility to higher education is a large reason why America's legendary socioeconomic mobility has been as good as it has been over the last century, but that's coming to an end. I think there are other countries in the developed world that provide more opportunities for education and access to the middle class than ours, and it's sad. With Ronald Reagan and the Bush clan as cheerleaders, thirty plus years of Jack Welch's social Darwinism have really crushed our heart and soul. This country just keeps gutting the middle class, and it's going to pay for it one day. We probably already have paid for it; we just don't realize it yet.
I agree with this 100%. The fact is, we are still paying for it.
Just check out this article in the NY Times about how Americans who can afford paying college tuitions in CASH tend to be admitted at a higher rate to Ivy League colleges than their poorer counterparts.
"When we spoke recently, he mentioned a Georgetown University study of the class of 2010 at the country’s 193 most selective colleges. As entering freshmen, only 15 percent of students came from the bottom half of the income distribution. Sixty-seven percent came from the highest-earning fourth of the distribution. These statistics mean that on many campuses affluent students outnumber middle-class students.
“We claim to be part of the American dream and of a system based on merit and opportunity and talent,” Mr. Marx says. “Yet if at the top places, two-thirds of the students come from the top quartile and only 5 percent come from the bottom quartile, then we are actually part of the problem of the growing economic divide rather than part of the solution.”
***********
Bottom line is - the lower middle income class still gets f*cked no matter how you look at it.
degree-not-worth-debt-cnnmoney: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/college-education/article/113010/degree-not-worth-debt-cnnmoney - broken link)
If you consider that most freshman classes (Intro to This, Intro to That) are taught by grad students, and that a number of students drop out before their junior year, I'm still in favor of spending the first two years in a community college and then transferring to a good four year school. Your bachelor's degree is the same whether you did all 4 years at the 4 year school or did 2/2. Just make sure the credits are transferable before you take the CC classes. Will save you a bundle. Plus, most community colleges are good with offering night classes meaning you can probably hold onto some kind of job while going there.
You may be interested in these unemployment rates for June 2011 (over 25 years old):
Didn't graduate high school: 14.3%
High School Graduate: 10.0%
Some college: 8.4%
4 Yr College Graduate: 4.4%
They come from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Looks like in the big picture, it pays to graduate from college.
Sorry but I disagree. Why would parents do much more than routine rumbling about tuition hikes? None of them are concerned about Federal or State spending/deficits. They love taxes and social engineering in the schools. Yet they whine slightly and protest not.
Same goes for admission standards. It makes no difference whether their child can read or write. The main thing is that he/she gets a piece of paper that says "they is educated".
But, it does not pay for everybody. All 18 year olds are not going to succeed in college. In Virginia, a report released this week revealed that 56% of community college students cannot read or write at high school levels. Yet, US society led by Obama is pushing that all people go to college. Hmm. In my experience as an online college instructor, the 56% or higher stat is correct. Most of these people are better off learning a trade and probably making more money.
You may be interested in these unemployment rates for June 2011 (over 25 years old):
Didn't graduate high school: 14.3%
High School Graduate: 10.0%
Some college: 8.4%
4 Yr College Graduate: 4.4%
They come from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Looks like in the big picture, it pays to graduate from college.
Depends on what kinds of jobs people are applying for who graduated college. I just got turned down for three different jobs in a span of just three days. One was a mailroom clerk position with Halliburton, another one was a front end clerk at a hotel, and the other was a records clerk position in the city I live after applying in person (yes I was dressed up nice). I also applied for a janitor job, a job as a crewmember at McDonalds, and a payroll and data entry clerk at a dairy company that had a job fair three weeks ago. Not going to get any of those jobs either, so I remain unemployed.
If you consider that most freshman classes (Intro to This, Intro to That) are taught by grad students, and that a number of students drop out before their junior year, I'm still in favor of spending the first two years in a community college and then transferring to a good four year school. Your bachelor's degree is the same whether you did all 4 years at the 4 year school or did 2/2. Just make sure the credits are transferable before you take the CC classes. Will save you a bundle. Plus, most community colleges are good with offering night classes meaning you can probably hold onto some kind of job while going there.
You may be interested in these unemployment rates for June 2011 (over 25 years old):
Didn't graduate high school: 14.3%
High School Graduate: 10.0%
Some college: 8.4%
4 Yr College Graduate: 4.4%
They come from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Looks like in the big picture, it pays to graduate from college.
It pays to graduate from college, but you also have to pay to go to college -- like a boat load of borrowed money that will eat into whatever earnings you have. You might be employed, but then again, you kinda need to be or you're looking at defaults that you can't *ever* unload. Something to keep into perspective.
I think the new reality is that today's U.S. graduates have it tougher than any American in decades. They have to keep their options wide open and they have to approach the job market much more strategically than I did when I was in my 20s. The advantage that I have over a 20-something is experience and know-how, which is what a lot of employers want and can take their time to choose in this market. The advantage that a 20-something has is that they're young and trainable, and if they have the right attitude, they're really what a lot of employers want: fresh, healthy, energetic faces of the future. Use that to your advantage if you're under 30 and scared crapless about your future.
I think more education is the key to a good future. But a good future can, and will, mean a different experience for the current generations of Americans. Keep your mind and options open. If you're not finding luck here in the States, consider working abroad. Learn a second language. Learn how to communicate. Learn how to work with money. But most of all, build your reputation as a respectable worker who can build relationships with people.
I don't know, I think some of these colleges are getting outrageously expensive. I don't know if it's because of the millions of dollars they pay the coaches, or what. I went to a small university that didn't even have a football team. Came out with a bachelor's degree and no debt because the school was so cheap. Landed a good job and get paid comparable to my co-workers who went to the big money football schools. I think people just have to evaluate their finances and see if they can really afford it. Like buying a Mercedes vs. a Honda. Is the prestige worth it to you? They both get you where you want to go.
I think you're placing too much emphasis on the athletics. If anything, football and basketball (men's) the ones who drive the revenue in regards to overall athletic programs.
Repeal Title IX and it would make most college athletic departments self-sustaining.
Also, college athletics are driven by alumni and boosters. (Phil Knight practically funded Oregon's athletic rise to the top.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo
Some people that seem to live in fantasy land say "Those football teams make money for the university".
Tell that to a guy (me) that went to a university where the whole football team was on a full scholarship and didn't win a single game 2 seasons in a row.
It's about branding, attracting students, and building a connected alumni base (which will generate donation dollars). Not every school can be Harvard or MIT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCavalier
Not necessarily. The push to make all citizens college graduates is wrong. Not everyone has the interest or ability to succeed in college. Many dropout before getting a degree. Others spend 5-6 years instead of just 4 years to get a degree. The net value to society is marginal. More people should be going into the trades. We need qualified electricians and plumbers instead of more college graduates. Besides they can earn more money while enjoying the freedom of owning a small business. They are contributing members of society producing real wealth.
I agree with this 100%. The other problem is when everyone gets a college degree, with debt, what's going to separate them apart? That college degree then becomes rather worthless in that sense. People seem to go to college just because that's the thing to do and that's what you need to do in order to get a regular job these days.
We also need to get people to start thinking in an entrepreneurial manner. College might help with this, but a lot of successful entrepreneurs never went to college.
I agree with this 100%. The fact is, we are still paying for it.
Just check out this article in the NY Times about how Americans who can afford paying college tuitions in CASH tend to be admitted at a higher rate to Ivy League colleges than their poorer counterparts.
"When we spoke recently, he mentioned a Georgetown University study of the class of 2010 at the country’s 193 most selective colleges. As entering freshmen, only 15 percent of students came from the bottom half of the income distribution. Sixty-seven percent came from the highest-earning fourth of the distribution. These statistics mean that on many campuses affluent students outnumber middle-class students.
“We claim to be part of the American dream and of a system based on merit and opportunity and talent,” Mr. Marx says. “Yet if at the top places, two-thirds of the students come from the top quartile and only 5 percent come from the bottom quartile, then we are actually part of the problem of the growing economic divide rather than part of the solution.”
***********
Bottom line is - the lower middle income class still gets f*cked no matter how you look at it.
That article is a little light on substance. They needs to give real stats on the SAT scores, GPAs, and other background information on those who are and who aren't admitted.
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