My degree isn't worth the debt... (psychology, private school, salary, accepted)
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Not any better than CC. (Yea, I had the 'experience'... so what?)
IT IS clear which is better for the 13th, and probably the 14th Grades.
$'s don't lie.
It's not better to go to one type of college when you really want to go to another. IvoryTickler's daughter is a good example. She feels cheated not going away her freshman year. There's quite a bit of value to that.
Money, on the other hand, is an unlimited resource that is given too much value. It's great if you can save some money and get what you want, but if not, then you're sacrificing quality of life.
So you're right, it is clear which is better. The one that keeps you happy.
What I find outrageous is the cost of room & board at just about any major university.
I'm trying to talk my kids into staying home (we live near two major universities and several community colleges), for at least half their education, take cc courses, take AP, and waiver exams ( I waived out of 12 credits my first degree), anything to nip around the edges of that monster bill.
So many kids drop out the first year, even the first semester. College dorms are complete zoos, I have no intention of paying ~ $10K/academic year for my kids to live in a place they can't even sleep at night, then its somehow their fault when they crap out the 2nd semester.
many parents are either offering to board the kids at home, or, purchase a house or condo near the student's campus. Their outlay is about the same, with a well-chosen roomate it can sometimes pay the monthly expenses, and they have tax writeoffs, and -- hopefully---equity upon graduation. then, parents can either sell the property and net out their R&B costs, or continue to rent it, there's always a market for rental property in a college town!
It's not better to go to one type of college when you really want to go to another. IvoryTickler's daughter is a good example. She feels cheated not going away her freshman year. There's quite a bit of value to that.
Money, on the other hand, is an unlimited resource that is given too much value. It's great if you can save some money and get what you want, but if not, then you're sacrificing quality of life.
So you're right, it is clear which is better. The one that keeps you happy.
I'd bet she will be MORE happy... not having that mountain of debt!
I didn't want to stay at home... In retrospect it wouldn't of hurt me a bit!
-I DO wish I had CLEPed out of more classes (As a side note)
As to money being an unlimited resource:
Not so. It requires the expenditure of THAT MOST VALUABLE of resources...
I'd bet she will be MORE happy... not having that mountain of debt!
I didn't want to stay at home... In retrospect it wouldn't of hurt me a bit!
-I DO wish I had CLEPed out of more classes (As a side note)
As to money being an unlimited resource:
Not so. It requires the expenditure of THAT MOST VALUABLE of resources...
Time.
You are right, it is easy to make money.
It is hard to make time...
You're making a generalization... you can make bets but it doesn't mean you're right.
There's a value attributed to attended a good quality 4-year college from beginning to end. I had experiences and met so many people at my small college here in NJ that would never be matched by CLEPs and community colleges. Also, you learn a lot more from a professor than that is required for a CLEP exam. CLEPs are outdated in many subjects such as marketing.
It really comes down to what you want to get out of college. If you just want the piece of paper, then it is less important how.
Yes, time can be turned into money and time is certainly one of the most valuable resources. But it's not the only way to make money. In the residual income scenario the time involved is virtually 0.
I found a link, looking for Elizabeth Warren (america's consumer protection czar). Tuition at the University of Houston in the late 60's.....get ready....was $54 a semester! Does anyone want to go?
The numbers were so absurd for education in the 60's, they aren't even printed for todays students to understand.
-This is why I think a lot of it is a sham. The boomers coasted through college. It cost peanuts. The job market was COMPLETELY different then. If women weren't in the work force, and the US was the sole world super power, how much competition did American graduates face? Not very much. Plus paying $50 or $80 a semester.
-Everything since the 70's and 80's has been a farce. There's been a dilution of standards for american students, as global competition rises, and as tuition increases faster than inflation! Wonderful triple whammy. Plus all this idealism, social engineering, "diversity", "group co operation", etc. Plus the for profits. Plus these half baked psuedo schools.....ie. the ones that advertise on tv, learn this in 12 weeks. I.e. many ways to be derailed from a quality education people took for granted 30 years ago.
-It's egregious not to look at hard facts in middle school and highschool when deciding on college. What did this place cost 30 years ago? Why is following political ideology (college for all) more important than looking at hard facts (this place cost $100, and now it's $12,000....and the job market is worst, and there's more global competition for your spot). Hmmmm. Why are students shouldering all that risk?
-Community college needs a marketing makeover in this country. The quality can be quite good, less expense (don't have to live on campus), same instructors who have taught at 4 year schools, etc.
If it hasn't already been said, one way to reduce costs is to go to a community college for the first two years. It's a lot cheaper and the 4 year degree you get after transferring to a university is identical to the one they'd hand you if you went to said university for the entire 4 years.
.
The problem I see with community college is that a lot of times the 4 year universities ********* with not accepting the credits. I know that's not true in every case, but whenever you have a transfer from one school to another, you're inevitably going to lose some students who would otherwise graduated and gotten their degrees. A fragmented experience can work, but it's far from the best, IMO.
The problem I see with community college is that a lot of times the 4 year universities ********* with not accepting the credits. I know that's not true in every case, but whenever you have a transfer from one school to another, you're inevitably going to lose some students who would otherwise graduated and gotten their degrees. A fragmented experience can work, but it's far from the best, IMO.
NJ has a law where all public 4 year colleges must accept all credits from NJ community college AA and AS graduates. Does not apply to AAS graduates, naturally. Hopefully other states will follow suit.
You're making a generalization... you can make bets but it doesn't mean you're right.
Yes, it is a generalization. And I will be the first to admit there will be exceptions.
But from both my own observations (Personal and others) as well as the overwhelming outcry from those who went 'the hard way'
Statistically... I'm right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest
There's a value attributed to attended a good quality 4-year college from beginning to end.
If you say so...
"Whatever it is" I don't see it outweighing the 'debt chain around your neck' (If you can do it without debt... go for it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest
I had experiences and met so many people at my small college here in NJ that would never be matched by CLEPs and community colleges.
And that's why you would go to the school for the final 2 years! (When you've got some direction and experience ANYWAY...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest
Also, you learn a lot more from a professor than that is required for a CLEP exam.
Sometimes (Like my Recent geology class) Yes.
Often: No
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest
CLEPs are outdated in many subjects such as marketing.
That might be why they don't offer CLEP for that subject
And only for '13th and 14 grade subjects'
Math, Science, History, Social sciences etc...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest
It really comes down to what you want to get out of college. If you just want the piece of paper, then it is less important how.
I get more knowledge reading on my own.
(Sometimes... like in Sociology DESPITE the teacher)
I'm after the degree so I can drag down the 6 figure paycheck for a few years before I chunk the rat race.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest
Yes, time can be turned into money and time is certainly one of the most valuable resources. But it's not the only way to make money. In the residual income scenario the time involved is virtually 0.
Agreed. But ATTAINING that 'Residual income' took time.
Look, I understand residual income, AND the power of compound interest...
But in mutable ways (Establishment, and then pay off)
...Those take time.
Look, As I said:
You MAY be right... she could meet her lifelong pardner in her first Class at the more expensive school, or a proof. who inspires her to do "x"
HOWEVER... the odds are not for it.
The odds DO say she will (By spending the extra money) put a choker around her neck, and shackle a weight to her body which will drag her down for years to come.
NJ has a law where all public 4 year colleges must accept all credits from NJ community college AA and AS graduates. Does not apply to AAS graduates, naturally. Hopefully other states will follow suit.
NJ has a law where all public 4 year colleges must accept all credits from NJ community college AA and AS graduates. Does not apply to AAS graduates, naturally. Hopefully other states will follow suit.
Accepting them and counting them towards a degree program are two different things.
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