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I'm asking you what you think is sufficient. Haha. It's a pretty straight forward question. Obviously you think they aren't receiving a quality education in the maths/sciences, so I am asking you what is good enough. Are you going to answer me with another question?
You asked what is "sufficient" without mentioning what goal you had in mind, now you are clarifying matters. Regardless, I addressed most of this, an English major should gain a good general understanding of science and mathematics. What do I mean by general? They should understand the underlying methodology, broadly what goes in the major sub-fields, etc. They don't need to know the details of particular theories, etc. Note, even science majors and mathematics don't really receive this so this is partially a critique of those majors as well. For example, a physics major can graduate and be almost entirely ignorant of biology, advanced mathematics, etc. In terms of the number of courses you need to achieve this, I can only guess.
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Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3
I personally don't think it matters for those who will never use that knowledge or who have no interest in it.
People reason on a daily basis so the only people that would not make use of the knowledge are those that are essentially brain dead. You seemed to be focused on learning details, I'm referring to more general principles. It is the latter that are important for everyone to know, the former mostly for those in the field.
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Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3
We shouldn't force people to take courses that they aren't interested in and will inevitably fail or struggle with.
We don't, people aren't forced to go to college. The question is whether you want degrees to mean something, currently most "liberal arts" degrees provide a rather poor education.
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Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3
....I think I have you pinned as a philosophy major.
Well you're 1/3 right, formally I have studied 3 things Philosophy being one of them.
So, are you basing all this on your comp sci background? If so, then I have an opinion on that because I work with comp sci guys (our IT) all day. The research involved in the physical, medical sciences is simply another ball game. It's just a different animal. I guess this is the case for any field.
No, I am currently involved in a cognitive psychology research project (as a drop-in, if you will) at my undergrad university. This is where I am becoming appreciative for these areas.
Unfortunately without Attorneys, entrepreneurs, politicians and experts in the behavioral sciences; fields in engineering, pure mathematics and "hard" sciences would go absolutely nowhere or would have little to no practicality. One hand washes the other, neither is really more valuable than the other.
there is no educational experience that cant give you something that you can use later.
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I fully agree. But people need to realize we have to live a life. To do so requires a job that can support us and to make us happy, support the lifestyle we want.
The fact is there are degrees that really only help you get a low paying job. Something that one cannot comcfortable support themselves on.
Sure if you have a rich spouse and not as worried about money its fine. The problem comes when a person gets this degree, goes in debt for this degree, and cries when they live a crappy lifestyle.
If you hate math and physics, don't be an engineer.
If you hate computers, don't be a compter scientist.
If you hate kids, don't be a teacher.
If you dislike a poor lifestyle where you can't pay your bills.... Don't go into debt for a degree that will not give you a job, or even a being able to support yourself.
You need a skillset that is in demand and required to do a job. I don't have a degree but by federal law you have to use someone like me to do the job.
The problem some people don't realize this. Get a degree with no job Outlook, get into more debt and blame the world, economy, and government for their personal actions. It is about not being accountable for your own actions.
They fell into the trap in modern America, I have a degree, I am worth giving a good job to. It's not about liberal arts or whatever. A degree in programming g in DOS and Windows 3.1 is complex and difficult, all while being useless as well.
No, I am currently involved in a cognitive psychology research project (as a drop-in, if you will) at my undergrad university. This is where I am becoming appreciative for these areas.
Ok, but this doesn't speak of your experiences in the physical sciences or engineering, which is what I'm asking about. If your opinions about the hard sciences/engineering is based on your drop in experiences with the soft sciences, meh, it's an off the mark pov. It doesn't make much difference, but it won't help you along whatever path you're on.
I know some will disagree, but psych work does not provide a window into the inquiry of the physical sciences, ime. And I'll be honest here, there is a divide between the soft and hard sciences. Lots of poo poo there because the complete bias required to operate in soft science research is frowned upon by those on the other side. I was no drop in and frankly, much of it was just crap in comparison. The hard sciences actually require rigorous collection of data and subsequential analysis. My experience in psych research was such a load of hoarse manure. That you think that the soft sciences, or contemporary LA anything, leads the physical sciences in anyway is just bizarre to me.
Ok, but this doesn't speak of your experiences in the physical sciences or engineering, which is what I'm asking about. If your opinions about the hard sciences/engineering is based on your drop in experiences with the soft sciences, meh, it's an off the mark pov. It doesn't make much difference, but it won't help you along whatever path you're on.
I know some will disagree, but psych work does not provide a window into the inquiry of the physical sciences, ime. And I'll be honest here, there is a divide between the soft and hard sciences. Lots of poo poo there because the complete bias required to operate in soft science research is frowned upon by those on the other side. I was no drop in and frankly, much of it was just crap in comparison. The hard sciences actually require rigorous collection of data and subsequential analysis. My experience in psych research was such a load of hoarse manure. That you think that the soft sciences, or contemporary LA anything, leads the physical sciences in anyway is just bizarre to me.
I double-majored. I have an engineering degree (Computer Science). I've studied physics and chemistry as requirements for that degree. I also have an economics degree with solidified my understanding of math.
My experience is spread out. The cognitive psych stuff is new to me. I don't do computer science, economics, or psych for work.
Cool so let's let a large group of the "occupy" people go home and get Obama to cancel the student loan bailout.
My wife has a masters I have an AA and some certifications, our household income is about $100k, she works contract now but if she goes direct I will make more then her.
Sent from my autocorrect butchering device.
So the answer then is you were thinking the "middle class" made more. At 100k in SC you are upper-middle class.
We don't, people aren't forced to go to college. The question is whether you want degrees to mean something, currently most "liberal arts" degrees provide a rather poor education.
I think that's why we need to get people more interested in these subjects rather than force them to take them once they're in college. Just a couple weekends ago, my sister was asking me for help on her trig homework. I've taken a few Calc classes in college, so I had a fairly good idea of the work she was doing (though it admittedly had been awhile). I read through her book to re-familiarize myself with the types of problem sets she had and I found a natural enjoyment in reading about it. I feel like many people just want to get through the course load and get to the end of the tunnel. To me, that's not what education is about. It's about the the joy of learning new things, and not just on one subject, but on a variety of different subjects. I took a couple of semesters of Russian in college just to learn about the language and the culture. I'll probably never use a smidgen of it, but I still loved it.
Anyway, my sister dropped her trig class after that week and I was not happy about that. I feel like she, as well as many others, are just sort of going through the motions so they can get that degree. That's why it's important for people to value learning, not just value some degree that you hope gets you a $$$ job. Hopefully the money aspect will be incidental in the process.
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Originally Posted by user_id
Well you're 1/3 right, formally I have studied 3 things Philosophy being one of them.
Well, I'm 1/3 happy. That makes sense though. You just seem to be the kind of person I would have run into in my philosophy courses (critical, always questioning, mildy pessimistic haha, etc.). Now I'm wondering what the other two are; perhaps I'll figure it out over time.
I don't want to pay for evers who ****ed off in school. Busy paying for the time my wife and I ****ed off in school.
I don't think you'll have to worry about that too much. The government is too busy bailing out corporations to worry about bailing out poor people who don't have money to contribute to their re-election campaign.
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