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You do understand those jobs are hard to get. Even at some top schools kids are completely left out. The legal field sucks right now. Those state attorney jobs have a ton of applicants from Virginia, Vanderbilt and Duke. So where does that leave people from FSU? I don't think people understand how bad things are. At MANY schools less than half the graduates have legal jobs.
Hard yes, impossible? no. I know of four people who have or are graduating from a tier 4 and a top 70 school so tier 2? Who all got their first job working for the feds at DHS as attorneys. They all also interned at DHS. I also know of a few people who from tier 4 schools have gotten offers from the State Attorney's office down here in Miami. A HUGE office, starting is only 40k but great experience. So I know that there are a lot of people applying for jobs that used to be for lower ranked schools or lower GPAs but it is very much still possible to get these jobs.
I agree the market is terrible right not. But if you fall into the right circumstances, get the right internships etc.. it can still work out. But the days of everyone making 60k when they graduate and every Top 20 school graduate making 100k are long gone.
Hard yes, impossible? no. I know of four people who have or are graduating from a tier 4 and a top 70 school so tier 2? Who all got their first job working for the feds at DHS as attorneys. They all also interned at DHS. I also know of a few people who from tier 4 schools have gotten offers from the State Attorney's office down here in Miami. A HUGE office, starting is only 40k but great experience. So I know that there are a lot of people applying for jobs that used to be for lower ranked schools or lower GPAs but it is very much still possible to get these jobs.
I agree the market is terrible right not. But if you fall into the right circumstances, get the right internships etc.. it can still work out. But the days of everyone making 60k when they graduate and every Top 20 school graduate making 100k are long gone.
So, go to law school for 3 years, spend about 120,00 bucks, and you start out making less money than if you'd just gotten an accounting degree (not to mention you lost out on 3 years of earning money rather than spending money)?
I agree, though, it is not impossible - the point (which has been said already) is that this is not a good degree for someone who simply wants a degree to be able to get a good job with a good income, without too much fuss.
Although, out here in California, there is a lot of competition for those government jobs.
Recently is had become clear ot me how mad the market is for graduating law students.
There are hundreds of experienced lawyers looking for work right now. A new graudate is not only useless to a firm at first, they actually lose money due to the time that experienced lawyers have to spend teaching them. Most lawyers I have encountered, leave their first jobs within 3 years. The job is not what they expected and they do nto realize yet that it is the profession, not the specific firm (most of the time). Thus, you lose $50,000 of so training a new associate to the point where they are actually useful, and then they leave. It is not surprising few firms are hiring new graduates. As far as I can remember, our firm has hired one first year lawyer in the past five years.
On top of that there are too many lawschools accepting too many students. Once, law school was limited to top students who demonstrated potential ability (logical/analytical thinking, intelligence and the willingness to work hard. Now, anyone can find a law school that will accept them. Many law schools are nothing more than 3 year bar review courses. Even a lazy dummy should be able to pass the bar exam after doing nothing but prepare for it for three years.
A public agency recently ran an ad for a paralegal position. They got something like 30 or 60 applications. Half of them were from licensed atorneys with as much as 6 years of experience. Non-top law school grads are likley to have trouble even getting a paralegal position.
A lot of mid level and lower tier law school graduates are out there working for free. I encounter them with some frequency. I first noticed when I got a letter from a City attorney office signed Gretta Graduate "Volunteer counsel for hte City of ***" I asked her about this and she said it is a common practice for law grads who cannot find a job to spend several years working on a vlunteer basis until they get some experience and make some connections. "How do you live?" I asked her. "I live with my parents and work at McDonalds on weekends."
Since that time, I have encountered a surprising number of others like her. It is nto a huge percentage, but things are apparently pretty bad out there for people not from top schools.
However for top schools placement is still not bad. the worst example was 40% not placed. That means 60% did find good positions. It is not that hard to get into the top 60% unless you are lazy, stupid, or just not really interested. Most top schools have much better palcement than 40%. Many of those figures also include people who decide to take non-lawyer jobs (like FBI agent) . It is bad, but not as bad as many people like to make out.
One of my former coworkers got a job in corporate compliance right after graduating from Florida Coastal Law and has since built a career as an in-house lawyer. She is now a VP at Citibank. Would anyone know how it was possible to get an in-house job straight out of law school? I thought corporations hired from law firms for in-house jobs. Also, is the job market tight for in house positions?
Dad was a lawyer after a career in the Army, graduated from UT. He set up his own practice, got specialized in bankruptcy and made it from there. Two things to consider. First of all, it was more to his advantage to start his own business because to most firms, at best to him, he would just be a name they could claim......and because of his age and experience, he'd probably be a threat to them.
Brother is a lawyer, too, graduated from South Texas. One of the things he usually comments on, as I recall, is that it should have picked a better school to graduate from.
So, apparently, part of it depends on where you went.
In a family of lawyers, why am I not one? Essentially because, from one angle, I'm a card collector. I get degrees, 4 so far, more for the point of learning than using them out there in a particular job. From another angle, I use what I have learned to accomplish the task I am doing.
But that said, most people are not like me, thrifty, decent cash to keep me eating, and not supporting a family. Most people are not like me in that they don't get degrees for fun.
So what am I saying? If you are going to make money off it, better to go to a better known school. If it's just for fun, then a lesser school may do.
One of my former coworkers got a job in corporate compliance right after graduating from Florida Coastal Law and has since built a career as an in-house lawyer. She is now a VP at Citibank. Would anyone know how it was possible to get an in-house job straight out of law school? I thought corporations hired from law firms for in-house jobs. Also, is the job market tight for in house positions?
I work as an in house attorney (and at one point, was in compliance at a bank). It's not that common to hire right out of law school but it happens occasionally - the most likely scenarios are for someone who went to law school after some work experience in the industry or who at least did an internship during law school. A big part is that due to the glut of lawyers on the market, it's not hard to find someone with a few years experience, which adds a lot to their ability to do the job. In the past, it was a little more common to hire directly out of law school for an entry level in house job but now that they don't have to, corporations would rather take the person who can bring some valuable experience with them. Even a couple of years at a firm makes a big difference in being able to really hit the ground running.
The market is tight because in house is a good lifestyle choice for a lawyer since the expectations for how much time you put in are a lot more realistic than as a new associate in a corporate law firm.
I would not recommend it especially in California unless you are well connected, go to a top tier school, or have skills that set you apart from your competitors. I went to a T3 school, graduated in the top 30%, was not well-connected, but I speak fluent Spanish. I got into immigration law and had ZERO problems getting internships and jobs. After I passed the CA bar I landed a job at a highly successful firm in LA. However, I hated it (80 hrs a week sometimes) so I accepted a job with DHS in the Midwest and couldn't be happier.
If you don't pass the bar you're pretty much screwed and CA is notoriously the hardest most grueling exam out there. But even some of my colleagues who did pass were not so fortunate. Most are doing ****ty contract work. One friend who was on law review is now an Uber driver. One is teaching English in Japan. One is doing real estate. One works for social services in a non legal position. A lot of them got jobs at nonprofits or work for the DA or public defender for ****ty pay. A lot of people did get good associate positions but they were mostly at the top of the class.
Ironically my best friend got weeded out the first year but now works for a national financial firm making really good money as an auditor.
Law school is almost entirely about the name on your degree, as the actual three years of school don't teach you much of anything about being a practicing attorney. It's the name on your degree that opens all the doors.
And therein lies the problem - most companies don't have the staff or time to train a lawyer, so they want someone with practical skills that will be useful from day one. A new law school graduate is pretty useless for a while.
A few companies hire straight from law school, but going to law school with expectation or plan of going in-house immediately is a bad idea.
I have a friend who graduated from a Tier 1 school in the 50s or so and was making around 45K to start.
His work is interesting though. That means a lot.
If you're in it for the six figure salary, then I'd say it's probably not the best idea. I also know several others lawyers, but I have no idea what they actually make. All in all, I actually think it's a pretty decent job. You just don't want to do into debt over it, probably not.
Crazy thing is law schools keep pouring more of them into the market every year! But, the jobs aren't there. Like others have mentioned, only do law school if you're confident you can make it into an elite school . Beyond that, you're really gambling with money and time.
The days of "working-my-way-to-a-comfy-partner" spot in law firms are long gone. A select few (from Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Princeton, etc.) still ball out like that. But, for the most part, a lot of lawyers are now eyeing corporate law positions. They pay less, but provide more stability. Problem is those positions are just as scarce as positions at law firms.
Another thing to consider is the fact that a lot of entry-level legal work is now being sent to India. No need to pay a newly-minted lawyer six figures when you can pay kumar in India a fraction of that to do the same job.
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