Hiring a private college consultant for a strong student/athlete? Where do I start? (private school, best)

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by GoCUBS1

Thanks for the info. I agree that there are a lot of good women's hockey schools out there. She is a relatively strong hockey player, but an even stronger student. She is first an academic. I am just thinking a college consulting service might help us narrow down the best schools for her academically, where hockey can perhaps be used as an admission "hook." I do not want a potential hockey scholarship to deflect away from a top school that is the best academic fit.

She is extremely high in math/science and is currently in a very accelerated (3 year advanced) program. She has been the top finisher in several natl. math/science competitions. She is on path to take the full load of all AP math/science coursework before senior year. She will start being bussed to the High School to take math next year (as a 7th grader) and take AP Stats, AP Calc, AP Chem, AP Physics by Junior year. She's on path to take college credit math/science seminars by Senior year, because there will be no more AP's left for her to take.

I know there are some very good hockey schools. But she is also thinking about top engineering schools, like MIT, which only has a girls hockey club team. I just feel that, due to all the variables involved, we'll need a little more support in the college selection process than the 15 minutes per year our school counseling office provides. If necessary, I am willing to pay a private counselor for this support. Maybe I just need that peace of mind. Maybe things will become clearer as I start the process.

Keep in mind, schools like MIT do NOT give athletic or academic scholarships (MIT, IVy's, etc.). Admissions sometimes is helped because of a sport, but that depends and never with a club sport. Your income and assets are going to make the difference there but if you are a high wage earner or have a lot of equity in your house, you are going to be paying full freight at a school like MIT.

I would start visiting schools semi-early, late sophomore year, to get a feel for the kind of school she wants and start narrowing it down from there. Also, if she goes to a major university like the U of Minnesota and is in their IT school, stats for admissions to those colleges are on par with MIT, etc. The U of MN IS a top engineering school, especially their chem and biochem engineering programs. We had a kid at our high school that was taking a specially designed gradate level math program because he was done with college level math by 9th grade. He was not socially ready to be in college though. He was taking this program through MIT---but didn't get INTO MIT when the time came...it's such a crap shoot at that level---you are talking single digit acceptance rates. Being female will help, some, but don't get caught up in the name and fail to look at realistic choices for her for admissions. High stat kids don't have "reach" schools academically, they are all statistically reach schools because of admissions rates. I know kids that have perfect ACT/SAT scores, national math/science competition award winners, etc, etc, etc. that didn't get into any top schools for one reason or another. You can't count on getting into those schools so spread your search and just realize that.

[GoCUBS1]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Keep in mind, schools like MIT do NOT give athletic or academic scholarships (MIT, IVy's, etc.). Admissions sometimes is helped because of a sport, but that depends and never with a club sport. Your income and assets are going to make the difference there but if you are a high wage earner or have a lot of equity in your house, you are going to be paying full freight at a school like MIT.

I would start visiting schools semi-early, late sophomore year, to get a feel for the kind of school she wants and start narrowing it down from there. Also, if she goes to a major university like the U of Minnesota and is in their IT school, stats for admissions to those colleges are on par with MIT, etc. The U of MN IS a top engineering school, especially their chem and biochem engineering programs. We had a kid at our high school that was taking a specially designed gradate level math program because he was done with college level math by 9th grade. He was not socially ready to be in college though. He was taking this program through MIT---but didn't get INTO MIT when the time came...it's such a crap shoot at that level---you are talking single digit acceptance rates. Being female will help, some, but don't get caught up in the name and fail to look at realistic choices for her for admissions. High stat kids don't have "reach" schools academically, they are all statistically reach schools because of admissions rates. I know kids that have perfect ACT/SAT scores, national math/science competition award winners, etc, etc, etc. that didn't get into any top schools for one reason or another. You can't count on getting into those schools so spread your search and just realize that.

Thank you for providing such great info.... I am not counting on scholarship or her getting into any particular school. I understand what you are saying about the high stat schools being "reach" schools for all their highly qualified applicants, due to their very low acceptance rates. I am trying to figure out if/how hockey (and her other activities) should be used as "admission hooks" and how this whole process works.

U of Minn is one of the best hockey programs in the country and a great school. That school (as well as Wisconsin) has been on her radar for years - she has attended their hockey games and has the jerseys. She is a big fan of their teams. These schools also have good engineering/med programs. They have their pick of the top players in the country (and Canada) - will she be a sought after forward recruit? Who knows? She is still developing. She has also mentioned the hockey Ivies - e.g. Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc. where girls from her league have been recruited. She has also mentioned Stanford and Northwestern (no hockey programs) where she has attended summer camps and loves the campuses. She likes MIT because that is where her teacher and one of her hockey coaches went (her coach gave up D1 hockey to attend MIT). She is not setting her sights on only one school.

She may also have some other "admission hooks" in addition to academics/sports (e.g. she plays a relatively sought-after instrument, she is a female wanting to study STEM, she may be a "legacy" student, etc.). Also, we own our business so there may be things we can legally do to optimize admission/scholarship chances - whether it be moving assets into trusts, adjusting income, or leveraging networks. There are also other, more obscure local, natl. scholarships she may qualify for.

We will need lots of help in identifying schools/scholarship/financing opportunities - will our school guidance counselor be able to fully support us? Or should I hire someone to help us? With 3 kids and a business to run, I may not be able to provide all the support needed. I can not be on C-D every 5 minutes asking questions to helpful people like you - you would grow tired of me!

This is why I am looking at the private consultants. I do not know how all these things work - but I do know there are ways to best play the game (and the game always changes). There are ways to best "package and market" the product for the best opportunities, just like everything else in life. There are ways to mitigate the cost. The goal is to identify the best fit for her needs/goals, present her in the best way to improve acceptance rates, and figure out how to best pay for it all.

[Weichert]

Just wanted to add something here. Remember that just as getting into one of the top universities these days is more or less a crap shot then so is the athletic scholarship route.

I know very little about hockey but I'd think that it is very competitive just as other sports. Many years ago I won an athletic scholarship in football. And I attribute it to luck as much as anything else. My senior year in high school my team won the state championship and I made all-state. Both contributed, at least in my opinion, to my getting the scholarship. Most important though were the other people on the team. We had all played football together starting before high school and were determined to win the championship.

It might seem strange but the better the team you are on the better chance you might have to win an athletic scholarship. The college coaches know very well the composition and the competition of high school teams and their schedules. If you stand out there chances are you'll also do well later at the college level. At least thats my thinking as thats how it turned out for me.

I was a good student as well, very interested in science and math and although several universities talked to me I chose the one that I thought best for me both academically as well as athletically. It is sort of a compromise but keeping both in mind would be the best path for future success.

Anyway, hope it all works out for your daughter.

[GoCUBS1]

Originally Posted by Weichert

Just wanted to add something here. Remember that just as getting into one of the top universities these days is more or less a crap shot then so is the athletic scholarship route.

I know very little about hockey but I'd think that it is very competitive just as other sports. Many years ago I won an athletic scholarship in football. And I attribute it to luck as much as anything else. My senior year in high school my team won the state championship and I made all-state. Both contributed, at least in my opinion, to my getting the scholarship. Most important though were the other people on the team. We had all played football together starting before high school and were determined to win the championship.

It might seem strange but the better the team you are on the better chance you might have to win an athletic scholarship. The college coaches know very well the composition and the competition of high school teams and their schedules. If you stand out there chances are you'll also do well later at the college level. At least thats my thinking as thats how it turned out for me.

I was a good student as well, very interested in science and math and although several universities talked to me I chose the one that I thought best for me both academically as well as athletically. It is sort of a compromise but keeping both in mind would be the best path for future success.

Anyway, hope it all works out for your daughter.

Thanks for your feedback... I agree that a lot of luck is involved and that your team makes a big difference in showcasing your talent. E.g. She has been with the same group of girls for several years and they have become adept at making plays together and capitalizing on individual strengths, which makes them all look good. She played on another (all boys except her) team that could not pass well, so she could not get the puck as often to make the forward/wing plays that she is good at.

She is lucky that she lives close to a rink and could start playing at an early age - the luck of easy access to ice could be one of the biggest factors in hockey success - there is a reason MN, home of 10K frozen lakes, produces so many good players! I could be wrong, but I believe women's' hockey still has one of the top scholarship $ per player AND % of H.S. players who play at college. But maybe this has all changed. I haven't seen those stats in awhile, and coaches can "work" these statistics to sell their programs.

But the reason my daughter plays the sport is that she is just completely and utterly in love with it, regardless of whether she'll play in college. IMO, hockey is the fastest, most skilled, best spectator team sport out there - but I am a little partial!

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by GoCUBS1

Thank you for providing such great info.... I am not counting on scholarship or her getting into any particular school. I understand what you are saying about the high stat schools being "reach" schools for all their highly qualified applicants, due to their very low acceptance rates. I am trying to figure out if/how hockey (and her other activities) should be used as "admission hooks" and how this whole process works.

U of Minn is one of the best hockey programs in the country and a great school. That school (as well as Wisconsin) has been on her radar for years - she has attended their hockey games and has the jerseys. She is a big fan of their teams. These schools also have good engineering/med programs. They have their pick of the top players in the country (and Canada) - will she be a sought after forward recruit? Who knows? She is still developing. She has also mentioned the hockey Ivies - e.g. Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc. where girls from her league have been recruited. She has also mentioned Stanford and Northwestern (no hockey programs) where she has attended summer camps and loves the campuses. She likes MIT because that is where her teacher and one of her hockey coaches went (her coach gave up D1 hockey to attend MIT). She is not setting her sights on only one school.

She may also have some other "admission hooks" in addition to academics/sports (e.g. she plays a relatively sought-after instrument, she is a female wanting to study STEM, she may be a "legacy" student, etc.). Also, we own our business so there may be things we can legally do to optimize admission/scholarship chances - whether it be moving assets into trusts, adjusting income, or leveraging networks. There are also other, more obscure local, natl. scholarships she may qualify for.

We will need lots of help in identifying schools/scholarship/financing opportunities - will our school guidance counselor be able to fully support us? Or should I hire someone to help us? With 3 kids and a business to run, I may not be able to provide all the support needed. I can not be on C-D every 5 minutes asking questions to helpful people like you - you would grow tired of me!

This is why I am looking at the private consultants. I do not know how all these things work - but I do know there are ways to best play the game (and the game always changes). There are ways to best "package and market" the product for the best opportunities, just like everything else in life. There are ways to mitigate the cost. The goal is to identify the best fit for her needs/goals, present her in the best way to improve acceptance rates, and figure out how to best pay for it all.

Hockey will be a hook if the coach wants her enough. One coach may want her and she will be her #1 recruit, another coach may not give her the time of day--it just depends, which is about as good as you can do right now .

I would suggest looking at the FAFSA and the CSS, both can be found online. Each CSS school has variations on their forms but you will get the general idea. Being a business owner is actually a huge detriment to aid at CSS schools, not as much at FAFSA. The CSS looks into your situation more closely, holdings, business income/sales, etc. Trusts and whatnot are not going to help you a whole lot. I would suggest your D start working for your company and putting her salary away for college. If she ends up at a DI school on a full ride-you have wedding money or a downpayment on a house or whatever for her when she is done--or funds for grad school. The "obscure" instrument can be helpful...or not. She has a lot to offer a college so she is doing great. You just have to reinforce that if she doesn't get in, it's not her, it's them. You just never know. There are 1000's of kids just like her that don't get in either.d

Your best resource for your college search will be her club coaches. Even though they are focused on hockey, you will be able to find a match for her through the process. Until she gets some ACT/SAT scores and some high school grades it's all speculation but based on what you say, she will have the stats to get in anywhere and hockey will most likely be her ticket to get into the school she wants (if they have that). Outside of that, the next best thing she could have would be to be a black or Hispanic female interested in science. Since there is nothing you can do about that, the next best thing she can do is get her 4.0 and ace the ACT/SAT--or as close as possible. Class rank is also HUGE with colleges so graduating top 10 is another "hook".

And--she's young, the schools she loves now might not be what she likes at age 17....

[Momma_bear]

I have to disagree with those who say that if she is good she will be actively recruited. I know lots of really good high school athletes and the ones who got recruited were the ones who actively marketed themselves to the college coaches not necessarily the best athletes.

My oldest son was like your daughter. He played 4 sports in high school, was captain of all 4 teams, got very high grades, won academic awards and was generally liked. Like you, we wanted him to focus on going to the right college, which would include playing football. He wound up with a good academic scholarship to an excellent school. However, he had to work at being recruited for his sport. Coaches did not just come to him. He had to put himself out there. We did not hire someone to do this, we were able to do it on our own.

As others have mentioned most of the very top academic schools do not offer athletic scholarships. Some offer academic scholarships and others offer only need based financial aid. Try to find out where you stand with regard to need based aid before your daughter falls in love with a school. In addition, consider schools ranked slightly lower in the USNWR rankings (say 25-75) where your daughter will stand out academically. These are generally only a notch below the tippy top schools and will generally offer better merit based aid.

Enjoy her high school athletic career. It goes by quickly.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Momma_bear

I have to disagree with those who say that if she is good she will be actively recruited. I know lots of really good high school athletes and the ones who got recruited were the ones who actively marketed themselves to the college coaches not necessarily the best athletes.

My oldest son was like your daughter. He played 4 sports in high school, was captain of all 4 teams, got very high grades, won academic awards and was generally liked. Like you, we wanted him to focus on going to the right college, which would include playing football. He wound up with a good academic scholarship to an excellent school. However, he had to work at being recruited for his sport. Coaches did not just come to him. He had to put himself out there. We did not hire someone to do this, we were able to do it on our own.

As others have mentioned most of the very top academic schools do not offer athletic scholarships. Some offer academic scholarships and others offer only need based financial aid. Try to find out where you stand with regard to need based aid before your daughter falls in love with a school. In addition, consider schools ranked slightly lower in the USNWR rankings (say 25-75) where your daughter will stand out academically. These are generally only a notch below the tippy top schools and will generally offer better merit based aid.

Enjoy her high school athletic career. It goes by quickly.

Normally I would agree but for a female playing AAA hockey with coaches that are wise to recruiting, she will be found if she is good enough to play for a top program when the time comes. If she doesn't develop like they think, she will have to take a more active role in the recruiting process.

[GoCUBS1]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Hockey will be a hook if the coach wants her enough. One coach may want her and she will be her #1 recruit, another coach may not give her the time of day--it just depends, which is about as good as you can do right now .

I would suggest looking at the FAFSA and the CSS, both can be found online. Each CSS school has variations on their forms but you will get the general idea. Being a business owner is actually a huge detriment to aid at CSS schools, not as much at FAFSA. The CSS looks into your situation more closely, holdings, business income/sales, etc. Trusts and whatnot are not going to help you a whole lot. I would suggest your D start working for your company and putting her salary away for college. If she ends up at a DI school on a full ride-you have wedding money or a downpayment on a house or whatever for her when she is done--or funds for grad school. The "obscure" instrument can be helpful...or not. She has a lot to offer a college so she is doing great. You just have to reinforce that if she doesn't get in, it's not her, it's them. You just never know. There are 1000's of kids just like her that don't get in either.d

Your best resource for your college search will be her club coaches. Even though they are focused on hockey, you will be able to find a match for her through the process. Until she gets some ACT/SAT scores and some high school grades it's all speculation but based on what you say, she will have the stats to get in anywhere and hockey will most likely be her ticket to get into the school she wants (if they have that). Outside of that, the next best thing she could have would be to be a black or Hispanic female interested in science. Since there is nothing you can do about that, the next best thing she can do is get her 4.0 and ace the ACT/SAT--or as close as possible. Class rank is also HUGE with colleges so graduating top 10 is another "hook".

And--she's young, the schools she loves now might not be what she likes at age 17....

Thank you - such great info... I will look at the FAFSA and CSS. I had also planned on looking into employing our children at our business. Do you know the minimum age for this? We own an engineering co. and 2 of our kids have expressed possible interest in working in the field. Would this also look good on a college app. or would it be better if they work outside the family business - e.g. a summer job with one of our customers?

I agree her coaches are a great resource. Her club should get her a lot of exposure in upcoming years. There is a smaller group of elite female hockey players (compared to, say, football) so she should get exposure at all the tournaments and camps. Her coaches are also networked in with the collegiate teams/scouts. They also get girls into the top hockey boarding H.S. which feed the top collegiate programs. I do not want boarding school for my DD though. I'd like to keep her in AAA hockey and the accelerated STEM program at our good public H.S. Family life and academics is first with us - then hockey.

If she continues on the same path, her grades/testing should be impeccable. She tests very well and has never received below an A on anything. She complains that some teachers won't give out an A+ when she earns it. My worry is that the inevitable B will overly stress her out and we are trying to prepare her for that. She is too much of a perfectionist. Unfortunately, our H.S. does not report class rank.

She is not a black or hispanic female, but happens to be a minority in her program - the only non-male, non-Asian in the program. One of my cousins also told me her daughter received a nice Italian-American scholarship even though we are less than 1/2 Italian - I had never heard of that!

[GoCUBS1]

Originally Posted by Momma_bear

I have to disagree with those who say that if she is good she will be actively recruited. I know lots of really good high school athletes and the ones who got recruited were the ones who actively marketed themselves to the college coaches not necessarily the best athletes.

My oldest son was like your daughter. He played 4 sports in high school, was captain of all 4 teams, got very high grades, won academic awards and was generally liked. Like you, we wanted him to focus on going to the right college, which would include playing football. He wound up with a good academic scholarship to an excellent school. However, he had to work at being recruited for his sport. Coaches did not just come to him. He had to put himself out there. We did not hire someone to do this, we were able to do it on our own.

Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like we have similar goals for our kids. Glad it worked out so well for him!

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by GoCUBS1

Thank you - such great info... I will look at the FAFSA and CSS. I had also planned on looking into employing our children at our business. Do you know the minimum age for this? We own an engineering co. and 2 of our kids have expressed possible interest in working in the field. Would this also look good on a college app. or would it be better if they work outside the family business - e.g. a summer job with one of our customers?

I agree her coaches are a great resource. Her club should get her a lot of exposure in upcoming years. There is a smaller group of elite female hockey players (compared to, say, football) so she should get exposure at all the tournaments and camps. Her coaches are also networked in with the collegiate teams/scouts. They also get girls into the top hockey boarding H.S. which feed the top collegiate programs. I do not want boarding school for my DD though. I'd like to keep her in AAA hockey and the accelerated STEM program at our good public H.S. Family life and academics is first with us - then hockey.

If she continues on the same path, her grades/testing should be impeccable. She tests very well and has never received below an A on anything. She complains that some teachers won't give out an A+ when she earns it. My worry is that the inevitable B will overly stress her out and we are trying to prepare her for that. She is too much of a perfectionist. Unfortunately, our H.S. does not report class rank.

She is not a black or hispanic female, but happens to be a minority in her program - the only non-male, non-Asian in the program. One of my cousins also told me her daughter received a nice Italian-American scholarship even though we are less than 1/2 Italian - I had never heard of that!

It will look very good on their college resumes to work--anywhere. They won't really know it's "your" business. As far as I know there really isn't an age limit to working in a family business but I'm not sure about that. I know kids that were around 13 that were working in family businesses around here.

We have a couple hockey boarding schools near us and while your child is pretty much "guaranteed" a college scholarship if they graduate from those programs....there are a lot of issues at those schools, especially with some inappropriate contact with students...academically they are very good schools but I wouldn't send my child there either.

One consideration for her, if she wanted stronger programs, would be to move to Minnesota...not that you want to uproot your family but one of our older son's dorm mates was one of the top hockey players out of Illinois and didn't make it past the first day of tryouts at their MN college (DI hockey)....