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The second comment you made in this post is the best comment I have seen from you. Associates/trade skills are in need and actually train students in skills they need on the job and prepare them. Plus they often have companies scouting for them, vs. the free-for-all it seems for every non STEM major out there.
I also agree that I thought Occupy were whiners but then I had to walk in their shoes. I ended up in a similar spot to them, an unemployed (luckily now underemployed) college graduates. The issue is that we went from having an easy entry level training job to having to settle for unpaid internships as college GRADUATES. While in college that is one thing because you are getting credit, as graduates you only get experience. Isn't that against the law?
I must say that the brush you write off those who take the loans is wrong. Many millennials were told that we needed college. Whether it was a specific major (like it is in 2008/10 until now) or any major (like pre 2008/10.) So we had several thousands (perhaps millions) of graduates who maybe before wouldn't have gotten degrees because they didn't "need to" but now we "need" it. I am not even talking about the whole degree + experience "entry level" job phenomenon. I am just talking about the fact you have society believing college is the be all end all for landing into the middle class.
Aye, very much agree. I especially feel (because I am one of them!) for those who went to school when it was basically "major in whatever your heart desires and you will be competitive" to graduate into a "sorry we prefer to hire only people that studied x ,y , z, I mean yea you can apply to us even though you did not major in x, y, z but honestly your chances of even getting a call back are beyond remote. Oh and yea btw our entry level positions require 1-2 years of experience and lol what is on the job training?"
Some quickly realizing there mistake are able to go back to school (because they have the time/money/ forgiving parents lol... ) to study the "right" thing-hence the popularity of many accelerated or 2nd degree programs. However for those who don't go back to school because of lack of money, time or interest, their position is precarious. What is more likely is that person will work some underemployed job whilst applying to the "real" job. Utilizing, applying and hoping the underemployed job will be enough to translate to the "real" job some day. If that person is lucky and or able to find a flexible enough schedule he/she will be able to balance an unpaid internship along with the underemployed job.
The entire core of this problem consists of two facts:
1) Student loans are generally subsidized, so any chump off the street can get them without being a good credit risk.
2) Those student loans are not then generally dischargeable in bankruptcies.
People whine, *****, and moan about how 'unfair' it is to have loans that can't be repaid because the student can't get a job. That's sophomoric. Nobody made the student sign the papers. Whether you like it or not, they were an adult when they did so and were taking a reasonable, measured risk that the education would increase their salary later.
Ah, you say, but the student was young! Didn't know what they were doing! Got misled! Studied arts and crafts! Can't walk into a 6-figure job by knowing origami!
Then stop subsidizing those loans. Let the loaners take on all risk of student loan default, and screen for whether it's a good/profitable risk. That would force students who are NOT good risk to maybe save money at a menial job to afford their degree.
The same people would then whine, *****, and moan about how it's unfair that students can't get loans 'for their education.'
The entire core of this problem consists of two facts:
1) Student loans are generally subsidized, so any chump off the street can get them without being a good credit risk.
2) Those student loans are not then generally dischargeable in bankruptcies.
People whine, *****, and moan about how 'unfair' it is to have loans that can't be repaid because the student can't get a job. That's sophomoric. Nobody made the student sign the papers. Whether you like it or not, they were an adult when they did so and were taking a reasonable, measured risk that the education would increase their salary later.
Ah, you say, but the student was young! Didn't know what they were doing! Got misled! Studied arts and crafts! Can't walk into a 6-figure job by knowing origami!
Then stop subsidizing those loans. Let the loaners take on all risk of student loan default, and screen for whether it's a good/profitable risk. That would force students who are NOT good risk to maybe save money at a menial job to afford their degree.
The same people would then whine, *****, and moan about how it's unfair that students can't get loans 'for their education.'
I would not be surprised to see private student loans get some kind of reform soon. Federal probably won't see much change as they already have decent interest, IBR and other affordable payment options, etc.
The entire core of this problem consists of two facts:
1) Student loans are generally subsidized, so any chump off the street can get them without being a good credit risk.
2) Those student loans are not then generally dischargeable in bankruptcies.
People whine, *****, and moan about how 'unfair' it is to have loans that can't be repaid because the student can't get a job. That's sophomoric. Nobody made the student sign the papers. Whether you like it or not, they were an adult when they did so and were taking a reasonable, measured risk that the education would increase their salary later.
Ah, you say, but the student was young! Didn't know what they were doing! Got misled! Studied arts and crafts! Can't walk into a 6-figure job by knowing origami!
Then stop subsidizing those loans. Let the loaners take on all risk of student loan default, and screen for whether it's a good/profitable risk. That would force students who are NOT good risk to maybe save money at a menial job to afford their degree.
The same people would then whine, *****, and moan about how it's unfair that students can't get loans 'for their education.'
Can't have it both ways.
So true, also we should not allow everyone to enter college. Not everyone needs a college degree nor are they able to due to the emotional and mental stress of it.
The entire core of this problem consists of two facts:
1) Student loans are generally subsidized, so any chump off the street can get them without being a good credit risk.
2) Those student loans are not then generally dischargeable in bankruptcies.
People whine, *****, and moan about how 'unfair' it is to have loans that can't be repaid because the student can't get a job. That's sophomoric. Nobody made the student sign the papers. Whether you like it or not, they were an adult when they did so and were taking a reasonable, measured risk that the education would increase their salary later.
Ah, you say, but the student was young! Didn't know what they were doing! Got misled! Studied arts and crafts! Can't walk into a 6-figure job by knowing origami!
Then stop subsidizing those loans. Let the loaners take on all risk of student loan default, and screen for whether it's a good/profitable risk. That would force students who are NOT good risk to maybe save money at a menial job to afford their degree.
The same people would then whine, *****, and moan about how it's unfair that students can't get loans 'for their education.'
Can't have it both ways.
They go to school and study fine arts. When they graduate, they can't get a decent job because their education is not in demand. So now, they're unemployed or stuck working at Wendy's. That's what happens when you get those kinds of degrees.
So true, also we should not allow everyone to enter college. Not everyone needs a college degree nor are they able to due to the emotional and mental stress of it.
But if they don't go to college, they can only work for less than minimum wage being a cart pusher, dishwasher, or etc. If they want a decent job with decent pay, it's best for them to go to college, right?
But if they don't go to college, they can only work for less than minimum wage being a cart pusher, dishwasher, or etc. If they want a decent job with decent pay, it's best for them to go to college, right?
Ideally yes, I mean that is what people tell you , " if you want to get out of working at Burger King forever, you must go to college" . Of course many grads are finding themselves right back at Burger King, the only differnce being they are older, in debt and have a shiny new diploma...
So I guess in one way it is a dammed if you do dammed if you don't scenario. Still i am on the side that college is worth it if you study certain majors. And if you did not study one of the "good" majors, life is not over , there are options (often pricy options ) that will hopefully, eventually lead to recovery .
So true, also we should not allow everyone to enter college. Not everyone needs a college degree nor are they able to due to the emotional and mental stress of it.
Nobody is forcing the kid to enter college. There is no bayonet in the small of his back prodding him into the admissions office.
Nobody is certainly forcing this hypothetical kid to attend the most uber-expensive private college on the planet, especially when far, far less expensive public universities dot the map.
Nobody is forcing him to major in something that has limited career prospects upon graduation.
Nobody is forcing him to undertaking a circuitous academic route to obtaining his degree.
Nobody is keeping him from working a part-time job here and there to shave off his expenses.
Nobody is keeping him from getting internships to increase his marketability upon graduation.
In a nutshell, the people complaining about this crisis are the ones who took zero responsibility for their lives upon entering college, racked up a lot debt in coursework that would pay a nickel ninety eight when the degree was earned, and now want to blame the big, bad banks for -- gasp -- actually wanting to be paid back.
Well, I'll let you in on a secret. Banks hate student loans. No, they despise student loans. First, they don't make squat off them and the default rate sits at roughly 13%. That means roughly 1 student loan in 7 becomes bad paper. Because the default rate is so high, they spend huge amounts of money trying to collect on them. That makes them grotesquely unprofitable, which is why really big banks are bailing out of them altogether. They are simply unprofitable. So the people who want to portray the average bank as some kind of Simon Legree just are being unreasonable.
Heck, I was an English major. Even though my parents did not give me much help with my college, I walked off the stage at graduation with a big fat $0 in student loan debt because a) I busted my ass to get a scholarship and two grants, b) I always had a job to pay for the rest of my tuition, books, and cars, and c) I was incredibly frugal. Hope that helps.
Noooo you are just not for fair practices within student loans because you had to pay them back so should everyone else. I don't hear you talking about taking away credit card bankruptcy protections or complaining about the mortgage bailouts.
Credit cards work differently than student loans and that is why the same rules cannot apply. However, maybe we should change student loans to work just like credit cards so they can be discharged as well. This would involve making so the banks take on the risk of student loans. Banks would essentially have to assess the students based on their creditworthiness in order to give them a loan. It's a win/win... because we would likely have less people attending schools that rank poorly (below top 10 in a particular field of study).
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