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I don't understand your petty argument. There is no official definition. The term "Diploma Mill" is considered an informal noun. There is no official source that trumps another and I'm not sure why you're making such a big deal of it.
You should check your reading comprehension as even your source says: "Diploma mills are schools that are more interested in taking your money than providing you with a quality education. You need to know how to protect yourself as a consumer.".
In conclusion, we've been using the term correctly, according to your source, and according to the dictionary. I hope you find this education satisfying. Best of luck in your studies.
When the folks at the department of edu say what a diploma mill is that's pretty official. They are also the people that recognize accredited agencies which in turn allows schools in those agencies to participate in federal loan programs. The websites definition is mandated to exist by the Higher Education Opportunity Act -2008 (Public Law 110-315) sec. 109 and 123. I don't know much more official it can get. And yes it can be used as a informal noun. But since some pretty important orgs have defined it and a law has been wrote mandating the department to define the term via their website it's what I'm going with. Unless I have a better source of information I can use my opinion won't change. I'm very open to changing my opinion I just need information supporting it.
This comment "Diploma mills are schools that are more interested in taking your money than providing you with a quality education. You need to know how to protect yourself as a consumer." Was not part of the definition that was just something that was before a reference to a BBB disclaimer on mills. The link was not just definitions but also explained what to look for and how to protect yourself. It was all good info but it's important to read and understand how the department of edu defines it before reading the rest. If I ignored everything but the one phrase you quoted I would think the same as you. But it's not that simple. To sum it up a accredited school is not a diploma mill and watch out for fake "accredited" orgs.
Last edited by curtisc83; 11-28-2014 at 12:07 PM..
Does it REALLY matter what the "official" definition of "diploma mill" is anyway? I think most people will get the point.
And, yes, they can be online or traditional colleges or universities, and for-profit and non-profit. Heck, they can even be programs -- many highly reputable schools have programs that are hardly rigorous and may even be known behind the scenes as "cash cows" because they lure students in, take their money, and basically dump them back out into the world with a fairly worthless credential.
I think, in general, that you'd find MORE diploma mills that were online and/or for-profit institutions though.
It doesn't really matter and usually I would just ignore it and let it go. But there has been such a large amount of bad info on these board lately I had to say something. If this was a automotive board I would keep my mouth shut and drive on like normal. It's when people start adding in their opinions as facts things start getting a little wonky. I think I've made my point and anyone reading my posts has all the proper info to make an informed decision on what's what.
I saw it and I agree with it because most schools don't care about the students they just care about the money. University is a cash grab now whether it is with loans or out of pocket costs. I think the Cooper Union talk was more so about private universities and how the original purpose of a few that were endowed like Cooler are now no longer but yet we see executives (in this case presidents) get paid extrodiant salary despite economic issues. I think the problem is that the president came from tuition based schools so he was use to the revenue stream from tuition.
I agree with Curtisc83. The term "diploma mill" is often used incorrectly on this forum and causes confusion. No USDOE or CHEA-recognized accrediting agency will let a school get away with handing out diplomas for little to no work unless maybe you're a too big to fail school like UNC. I really do hope that SACS will make an example of out them and put them on warning or probation.
Honestly, when it comes to education, what matters most is what the government thinks. The Oxford Dictionary is irrelevant. Colleges have to be approved by the states in which they are based. Colleges can only qualify for Title IV funding from the federal government if they are accredited by an agency recognized directly by USDOE or CHEA. USDOE indirectly recognizes any accrediting agency recognized by CHEA. When a state bans a diploma mill, it's never going to be an accredited college in good standing. On the other hand, some unaccredited schools are not diploma mills. They are usually licensed by a state to legally operate and are in the process of attaining accreditation or are claiming religious exemption.
Just to appease those who think that the Oxford Dictionary really matters when it comes to recognition and legalities, let's break down their definition.
Quote:
An institution or organization that grants large numbers of educational degrees based on inadequate or inferior education and assessment of the recipients:
"Inadequate" and "inferior" are subjective terms. All levels of government and most employers have determined that an accredited school is adequate. To deem a school inferior, one would have to set a minimum standard. Again, recognized accreditation organizations have been trusted to set the minimum standard in educational quality.
Does it REALLY matter what the "official" definition of "diploma mill" is anyway? I think most people will get the point.
It shouldn't, but in some people's minds, any college experience other than hobnobbing with PhDs, intense mentoring with Professors, and co-publishing peer-reviewed papers as a freshman () is not a legitimate college education. They'll trash any experience different than their own and fling around terms like 'diploma mill.'
It shouldn't, but in some people's minds, any college experience other than hobnobbing with PhDs, intense mentoring with Professors, and co-publishing peer-reviewed papers as a freshman () is not a legitimate college education. They'll trash any experience different than their own and fling around terms like 'diploma mill.'
I agree. When you have very opinionated people on opposite ends of the spectrum, it helps to have an official and objective definition.
I agree with Curtisc83. The term "diploma mill" is often used incorrectly on this forum and causes confusion. No USDOE or CHEA-recognized accrediting agency will let a school get away with handing out diplomas for little to no work unless maybe you're a too big to fail school like UNC. I really do hope that SACS will make an example of out them and put them on warning or probation.
Honestly, when it comes to education, what matters most is what the government thinks. The Oxford Dictionary is irrelevant. Colleges have to be approved by the states in which they are based. Colleges can only qualify for Title IV funding from the federal government if they are accredited by an agency recognized directly by USDOE or CHEA. USDOE indirectly recognizes any accrediting agency recognized by CHEA. When a state bans a diploma mill, it's never going to be an accredited college in good standing. On the other hand, some unaccredited schools are not diploma mills. They are usually licensed by a state to legally operate and are in the process of attaining accreditation or are claiming religious exemption.
Just to appease those who think that the Oxford Dictionary really matters when it comes to recognition and legalities, let's break down their definition.
"Inadequate" and "inferior" are subjective terms. All levels of government and most employers have determined that an accredited school is adequate. To deem a school inferior, one would have to set a minimum standard. Again, recognized accreditation organizations have been trusted to set the minimum standard in educational quality.
It may be used incorrectly here and there but it wasn't in this thread. That's my point. The English language isn't defined by legal classifications and to use English is not incorrect. While your opinion may be that we speak legalese in forums, a simple observance can show you that your opinion is wrong and we are speaking English and using the English definition is perfectly correct. Especially on a discussion board.
The term "diploma mill" was correctly by those who used it in this specific thread. While it doesn't conform to some legal classification, it's important to note that we are not in a court room and we are speaking English and using the English definition of the term is legit.
It shouldn't, but in some people's minds, any college experience other than hobnobbing with PhDs, intense mentoring with Professors, and co-publishing peer-reviewed papers as a freshman () is not a legitimate college education. They'll trash any experience different than their own and fling around terms like 'diploma mill.'
The term "diploma mill" was used correctly. So it's really a non-issue. Whether you agree with the person's statements is a different story. But the term is used correctly and previous posters who are trying to change the English definition of the term need to get off their high horse.
It shouldn't, but in some people's minds, any college experience other than hobnobbing with PhDs, intense mentoring with Professors, and co-publishing peer-reviewed papers as a freshman () is not a legitimate college education. They'll trash any experience different than their own and fling around terms like 'diploma mill.'
This happens a lot with bashing the states schools that aren't in the top 25. Not every school is a research school so opportunity cities to be publishing per reviewsat a freshman level, let alone senior level is not as easy. I dare not say it is impossible because there will be someone who can say they could do it with an interschool or internet method that I don't know of.
It may be used incorrectly here and there but it wasn't in this thread. That's my point. The English language isn't defined by legal classifications and to use English is not incorrect. While your opinion may be that we speak legalese in forums, a simple observance can show you that your opinion is wrong and we are speaking English and using the English definition is perfectly correct. Especially on a discussion board.
The term "diploma mill" was correctly by those who used it in this specific thread. While it doesn't conform to some legal classification, it's important to note that we are not in a court room and we are speaking English and using the English definition of the term is legit.
I already pointed out problems with how you interpreted the Oxford Dictionary definition. That's all I have to say. This post didn't debunk anything I said.
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) is not a legitimate college education. They'll trash any experience different than their own and fling around terms like 'diploma mill.'
