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The point about strategic planning is correct, regardless of passion, what degree to pursue you must plan ahead to insure success. At the same time I realize that not many 18 year-olds know with laser like precision exactly what they want to do in life. For every student that is "I want to become a nurse so I will study X", "I want to become an Accountant so I will study Y", I guarantee that you will have a plethora more, who are still exploring who they want to be, who for whatever reason have yet to decide their career path ( maybe they where lazier than the high school student who knew Accounting was for him, I don't know).
As for the OP wondering about what happens to the college grad who is unemployed or underemployed still living at home, still struggling, what is his/her future-I honestly do not know and it terrifies me. At best the student will keep working whilst applying and hoping that his current less than desirable job will eventually lead to a better job. At the most expensive, the grad may decide to go back to school to study something in demand. At worst the grad will continue to struggle on 8-15$ an hour for an extended period of time.
Well, we can argue all day, but the stats and major studies are aligned with my proposition. That if you have a strategic career plan BEFORE going into college, it works out better for you. At 18, you should take your high school education and go straight into the workforce doing something for $8.00 - $12.00 an hour. Through the course of working, researching and developing a career plan, you should return to college as a working adult because you will have more of an idea of what you want to do and why. Most Adult College Students don't have the issues the young college students have, because the Adult College Students KNOW why they are there. They are there for a "check off the box" degree acquisition that once acquired will help them move into XYZ position/promotion. Matter of fact, a lot of the times their Employer is paying for it.
Attending college with a plan = Success
Attending college without a plan = LOST
Most young college students are in college wandering around, like a chicken with his head cut off.
This plan you are proposing now is different from what you were proposing earlier in the thread. Going into the workforce after college is more workable than your previous plan, not because the students would be doing a ton of research but because they would be getting hands-on experience. However, even with this there are some challenges I think people need to realize. 1) What happens if the economy is really bad and there is very little hiring going on? I remember in 2008 I was trying really hard to get a summer job but I was SOL. During the most recent downturn especially, kids were told to really put their nose into the college experience since there weren't many alternatives. During hard economic times it can be very difficult for a young student fresh out of hs to get much experience in the workforce. 2) What happens if the student lives an area where there are limited opportunities, like a rural area? I still see a lot of potential roadblocks to your proposal, though not as many as before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleur
Yeah, if only my 29 year old self could go back and have a talk with my 17 year old self. Keep in mind that a lot of people are first time college students and have no one to really help guide them along the process. Being the first person in my entire family to ever go to college, I found myself in that predicament. You don't know what you don't know, and that will never change unless you have some sort of mentor or the proper guidance.
I agree with you 100%. I was also the first in my family to go to college as well and I can definitely say that it was not an easy process at all. Nobody in my family knew much about college, other than the fact that it's a good idea and I should do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazeddude8
The point about strategic planning is correct, regardless of passion, what degree to pursue you must plan ahead to insure success. At the same time I realize that not many 18 year-olds know with laser like precision exactly what they want to do in life. For every student that is "I want to become a nurse so I will study X", "I want to become an Accountant so I will study Y", I guarantee that you will have a plethora more, who are still exploring who they want to be, who for whatever reason have yet to decide their career path ( maybe they where lazier than the high school student who knew Accounting was for him, I don't know).
As for the OP wondering about what happens to the college grad who is unemployed or underemployed still living at home, still struggling, what is his/her future-I honestly do not know and it terrifies me. At best the student will keep working whilst applying and hoping that his current less than desirable job will eventually lead to a better job. At the most expensive, the grad may decide to go back to school to study something in demand. At worst the grad will continue to struggle on 8-15$ an hour for an extended period of time.
Well said. I think one definite side effect of all of this is that the middle class will continue to be eroded, unless there are some major policy changes made.
You put to much stock in the "type of degree" someone has. Those who are successful with STEM degrees likely would be just as successful with liberal arts degrees and vice versa. Degree choice matters a bit, but so does location, circumstance, the individual, their family's wealth, and most of all, luck. If you look at half the politicians and leaders out there who didn't start off rich, most have liberal arts degrees but got to the top by other means. I mean come on, the President has liberal arts degrees.... Degree matters less than the type of person who has it.
You might look at the OP's first post, as he/she has a liberal arts degree and wanted to know what he/she could do with that degree. Hence, my response.
Some degrees require much more of what I described because there isn't an "natural" fit for most people with liberal arts degrees, so they have to have "make" things happen. In general, for example, a cyber-security graduate would have an substantially easier time finding a well paying job than would a liberal arts graduate.
This is just what I've seen living in the low wage capital of the US, Las Vegas. When I moved here I was planning on working but the economy pretty much forced me to retire. I have worked but the jobs barely paid anything.
In 2008, 2009, there were no jobs. You couldn't find anything. And underemployment was the rule, not the exception. Everything was part time, no benefits, on call, no guaranteed hours.
Now it's sort of better. The jobs still pay nothing, part time, no benefits but you can get 2 of them and work 60 hours a week. Underemployment is still the rule, not the exception. But there are jobs now. And most places will guarantee a few hours work. Oncall is still common.
I know quite a few people here with multiple degrees, myself included, who have been working for ZIP for years now. But in some ways it's getting a little better. The pendulum always swings and change is the only thing guaranteed.
I think that as long as graduates are willing to move around the country and conduct themselves in a professional manner, having a good job should not be a huge issue. The economy is doing well.
These seem to be the two great shortcoming of recent college grads. Showing up to an interview in flip-flops or texting the whole time IS the reason you didn't get the job, not your resume.
You might look at the OP's first post, as he/she has a liberal arts degree and wanted to know what he/she could do with that degree. Hence, my response.
Some degrees require much more of what I described because there isn't an "natural" fit for most people with liberal arts degrees, so they have to have "make" things happen. In general, for example, a cyber-security graduate would have an substantially easier time finding a well paying job than would a liberal arts graduate.
I'm not saying that isn't the case, but for a lot of people, the alternative that is being advocated here is not getting a degree at all, which isn't the answer. Also, the type of degree you have and job prospects really depends on the location your in. Someone with a cyber security degree is going to have a harder time finding a job in a small, country town with no tech savvy companies compared to a big city in California. I have an MPA degree. My prospects aren't as good for getting a government job in Florida as they would be in Washington D.C. Same with a mathematical degree in a largely rural town that relies on farming where an agricultural or biological degree would hold more weight.
And people act like those degrees are easy to get. If everyone could get an engineering or computer science degree with high grades, they wouldn't be so in demand. Fact is, they are very difficult degrees, hence their value. For those who have to do liberal arts degrees, they can off set what their undergrad was in by getting professional certificates or a grad degree. A guy with an English undergrad degree and CPA probably has better career prospects than the cyber security graduate when you get down to it, because one is actually applicable to the workplace while the other is still theory. Certificates seem to be a lot more practical.
Well said. I think one definite side effect of all of this is that the middle class will continue to be eroded, unless there are some major policy changes made.[/quote]
I am wondering what sort of policy changes would have to be made?
I'm not saying that isn't the case, but for a lot of people, the alternative that is being advocated here is not getting a degree at all, which isn't the answer. Also, the type of degree you have and job prospects really depends on the location your in. Someone with a cyber security degree is going to have a harder time finding a job in a small, country town with no tech savvy companies compared to a big city in California. I have an MPA degree. My prospects aren't as good for getting a government job in Florida as they would be in Washington D.C. Same with a mathematical degree in a largely rural town that relies on farming where an agricultural or biological degree would hold more weight.
And people act like those degrees are easy to get. If everyone could get an engineering or computer science degree with high grades, they wouldn't be so in demand. Fact is, they are very difficult degrees, hence their value. For those who have to do liberal arts degrees, they can off set what their undergrad was in by getting professional certificates or a grad degree. A guy with an English undergrad degree and CPA probably has better career prospects than the cyber security graduate when you get down to it, because one is actually applicable to the workplace while the other is still theory. Certificates seem to be a lot more practical.
MY cyber-security graduate also needs certifications. I'm not sure why you would think it's theoretical. This is a hands on major. My son's college regularly participates in hacking competitions that are closely watched and run by cyber security companies.
I do agree that many degrees are going to be tied to a location. My kids will probably never live in our small town again because their career paths are just not marketable here. :-(
I'm not saying that isn't the case, but for a lot of people, the alternative that is being advocated here is not getting a degree at all, which isn't the answer. Also, the type of degree you have and job prospects really depends on the location your in. Someone with a cyber security degree is going to have a harder time finding a job in a small, country town with no tech savvy companies compared to a big city in California. I have an MPA degree. My prospects aren't as good for getting a government job in Florida as they would be in Washington D.C. Same with a mathematical degree in a largely rural town that relies on farming where an agricultural or biological degree would hold more weight.
And people act like those degrees are easy to get. If everyone could get an engineering or computer science degree with high grades, they wouldn't be so in demand. Fact is, they are very difficult degrees, hence their value. For those who have to do liberal arts degrees, they can off set what their undergrad was in by getting professional certificates or a grad degree. A guy with an English undergrad degree and CPA probably has better career prospects than the cyber security graduate when you get down to it, because one is actually applicable to the workplace while the other is still theory. Certificates seem to be a lot more practical.
Agreed, esp. with the bold. ALL the statistics show that college grads make more than non-grads. Sure, there are outliers, but in general the way to advance to a good income is NOT to start one's career right out of high school. I will defer to toobusytoday about the cyber security field, as I know nothing about it.
MY cyber-security graduate also needs certifications. I'm not sure why you would think it's theoretical. This is a hands on major. My son's college regularly participates in hacking competitions that are closely watched and run by cyber security companies.
I do agree that many degrees are going to be tied to a location. My kids will probably never live in our small town again because their career paths are just not marketable here. :-(
Its theoretical because by the time you get out in the workplace and especially with computers, much of what you learned changes such as viruses, systems, programs, operating systems, etc. has changed. The company you get hired with may do things completely different than another too. Its still a lot more applicable than the majority of college majors out there.
But what an accountant studies and learns in a CPA exam isn't really going to change and its directly applicable to what you're going to use on the job. Same with an EMT cert, police certification, fire fighter cert, CFP, CFA, CFE, etc. That's why they are differentiated as "professional" certifications. I know IT has their own professional certs like CISSP, C++, etc. but with technology, applications change so fast that some of those could be tomorrow. The other above certs though, have been around for years.
BTW, I'm not dissing cyber-security at all. Its a top degree/subject to study in that I wish I had done, I'm just saying professional certs give you an easier career path if you have a degree, any degree, to go along with it.
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