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I agree that for some there are subject areas that no matter how much tutoring, studying, teaching that one cannot simply grasp it. Now the difficulty is often finding the line between "lack of effort" and "I truly do not get it" for it can be hard to differentiae laziness and not getting it, but the line does exist.
Not that they would be talented. Talent is irrelevant. Only that they could accomplish these things. In other words, barring the truly mentally disabled, I think an average person could be competent in any of these things if they put their mind to it.
I ran large engineering organizations for many years. I don't think I ever came across an engineer who could not write adequately. Now really good engineering writers are rare. Though probably less rare than good writers of fiction. But competent writing is a standard engineering skill. There are probably a few exceptions but off-hand I don't know of one.
I would also note that engineers are not mathematicians. They can be but generally are not. They are adequate at certain branches of the mathematical arts but no master of them. On the other side of the equation where I went to college the math majors dreaded the 3 or 4 courses they had to take in the Engineering school. Engineering courses were always graded on a curve and maintained an entirely different standard than the math dept. A good way to have your math dept 3.8 suddenly a 3.5.
In general engineers are exceptional students and adequate at least in virtually all academic disciplines.
I don't think you can cut engineering unless you are smart. Not a genius...but smart. And there really is no appeal. The work load is heavy and does not let up. If you can't cut it now it is only going to get worse.
I went to a school that at that time had a heavy engineering student base - we definitely burned through them freshman year
I knew a guy who really wanted to be an engineer - he absolutely busted his butt and couldn't get past a couple of the math type classes that were meant to weed people out .......... definitely wasn't a lack of effort or ability - smart kid, but just didn't have that thought process .... he dropped and went into a music program
Some just get things easier and more in depth than others - it simply is what it is
I went to a school that at that time had a heavy engineering student base - we definitely burned through them freshman year
I knew a guy who really wanted to be an engineer - he absolutely busted his butt and couldn't get past a couple of the math type classes that were meant to weed people out .......... definitely wasn't a lack of effort or ability - smart kid, but just didn't have that thought process .... he dropped and went into a music program
Some just get things easier and more in depth than others - it simply is what it is
Sort of the same story, just replace engineering with Pre-med and watch the pre-med population drop like a rock once they hit organic chemistry. Now granted some upon realizing what it would take to get through the hard sciences just gave up half way, became lazy etc... but I know of some who truly wanted and truly worked on trying to understand orgo but for whatever reason could not-
Many people claim that they are not capable of getting through an engineering program because their "brains aren't wired that way" or they "can't do math" or something like that. I personally think that these people simply aren't willing to put in the extra effort it takes to get through a rigorous program like engineering. What do you think?
And just to be clear, this thread is not here to debate the employment prospects of engineers or what peoples' "passions" are. It is a discussion regarding "intellectual capability" vs laziness and excuse making.
I went though engineering and I worked my arse off. I gave it 100% of everything I had and didn't exactly light the world on fire. It was due or die. So I literally gave it all I had. Mostly B's and C's and when I had timed tests on difficult material, I got a couple of D's. I knew the material but it wasn't 2nd nature to me. I might have studied an entire weekend for a physics test and still pulled off a C after the curve. It wasn't for a lack of trying. I wasn't capable of getting an A or a B in physics. I understood the concepts and could do the homework. But if you really understand the material, then you can still get the questions correct when the instructor twists the question it a little. Smarter students adapt because they really understood the material. You see that again and again in every class. That's the problem with most students who struggle. They just don't fully grasp it no matter how hard they try. I did do well in classes like statistics, programming, and chemistry (as well as a few other engineering classes). But so did everyone else.
So at the end of the day, there were many students that naturally understood the material. It was their God given talent. Yet another group had to put in more effort to fall short of the top group. It should then be clear that we all have a wall. Some have more horsepower in that topic independent of effort.
Later, I went back and took a lot of business courses at the UofMN. I could easily get the highest grades in Finance, accounting, etc. There might have been 150 kids in the class and I didn't have to study much. That's the way my brain is designed; numbers. My 2nd gift is thinking on the fly and communicating that with conviction. So I went into technical sales and found my nitch / God given talent. So while there are many talented engineers, you can make a lot more $$'s in technical sales than a typical engineer. When I worked full time, I made more than my bosses bosses, bosses boss at Honeywell simply because I had better verbal communication skills and the market will willing a lot for that skill set.
Re: writing skills. Most technical minds lack the creative writing skills. Engineers usually have plenty of skills to author letters, memos, manuals, etc. Well... Maybe not manuals.
Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. While an engineering degree is very technical, those same engineering students who excel at science and math may not be successful at obtaining a liberal arts degree such as literature or music. A lot of your success in college comes down to interest. If you aren't interested in a subject or flat out hate that subject, you will struggle and maybe even fail. Whether or not it comes down to laziness, I don't think so. For one thing, you don't have to get an engineering degree. It's voluntary. It's lazy if you have the desire for an engineering degree but you aren't willing to put in the work. If you haven't got the desire for an engineering degree, it's not lazy to say you aren't wired for it or can't keep up.
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