Thoughts on online education? (Ivy, psychology, schools, charge)

[StrawberrySoup]

With the morphing of colleges from finishing schools to trade schools, I can see where the treatment of online-based degrees by employers is probably the most important issue. You can certainly argue that watching a high-fidelity lecture on a screen is probably better than sharing a 500 person classroom for Psychology 1A. (as a side note, when I get really rich, I'm going to buy microphones for everyone. The sound quality can be abysmal for recorded videos, people don't appreciate the importance of high quality audio. My profession makes me sensitive to high (or low) end video, but Good Lord audio is needlessly bad).

Personally, I think you can make a strong case for implementing more professional licensing ala bar exams, but don't expect that any time soon.

One thing I'm struck by when watching recorded classes is the low value per dollar you run into. An entire semester of (for instance) Roman history from an Ivy League school would fit into a corner of a decent book on the subject. Hardly worth the $6k they charge for the class. There has to be a better way.

[Garlic_Sr.]

I would think online education would be very convenient for working professionals trying to obtain a graduate level education. Many of us are in more business oriented professions so I don't know how much more valuable an in-person education is compared to an online one. Food for thought if I were to go for a Masters in Public Administration I would think an online curriculum would be beneficial since I could schedule that around my work hours.

[carnelian]

I taught community college online a few times many years ago.

1. It is best for students who are smart, very motivated and self disciplined. Interested in the subject.
Or students who cannot go to classes on the schedule there. Or much older and feel out of place in college.
2 The degree is best for careers or jobs without much competition. You need the degree or certificate for the job but the college and material learned is less important. I do not recommend it for very competitive jobs, at all, such as teaching, humanities, liberal arts, and sciences. Business and criminal justice probably okay.
3 If group discussions or experiments and hands on learning is involved, then not.
4 Online or distance learning will not replace classes, in general. the college saves a lot of money from them but students miss out on campus events and the culture there.
The drop out rate in the past is very high, much higher than regular classes.
Before computers, it was called correspondence courses and you mailed your work in --disreputable.

[markjames68]

Originally Posted by Garlic_Sr.

I would think online education would be very convenient for working professionals trying to obtain a graduate level education. Many of us are in more business oriented professions so I don't know how much more valuable an in-person education is compared to an online one. Food for thought if I were to go for a Masters in Public Administration I would think an online curriculum would be beneficial since I could schedule that around my work hours.

I started a hybrid MBA program over 15 years ago - mostly online with some residencies. Back then the learning platform was in its early days, and people didn’t have the same capabilities with high def video, mobile devices and broadband as now.

It worked, but it required more discipline from the students as well as the professors.

Today, the technology has not only caught up but surpassed what you’d get in class. And with a year of Zoom meetings under many people’s belts now the concept of group projects via video isn’t strange.

I agree that being able to work around your schedule is handy. I had very young children in the house when I was in the program so most of my studying was done between 10pm and 1am...and I appreciated the flexibility of taking a quarter off if needed.

[bale002]

Originally Posted by StrawberrySoup

The sound quality can be abysmal for recorded videos, people don't appreciate the importance of high quality audio. My profession makes me sensitive to high (or low) end video, but Good Lord audio is needlessly bad).

One thing I'm struck by when watching recorded classes is the low value per dollar you run into. An entire semester of (for instance) Roman history from an Ivy League school would fit into a corner of a decent book on the subject. Hardly worth the $6k they charge for the class. There has to be a better way.

This caught my attention. As an aside, Yale University offers a full set of class lectures produced in high-quality video for free online (Open Yale Courses) in a respectably wide range of humanities and sciences.

Granted, these lectures are 10-15 years old, but in some cases the material doesn't change much and at any rate it gives a taste.

[redguard57]

After a whole year of being forced online, I'm about ready to quit. I have never been depressed nor contemplated suicide in my life before. But a year of forced 100% online teaching with no end in sight has pretty well done it. The trigger for me was when my administration said they were "thinking" about opening up "maybe" 25% in Fall term 2021. I can't take it anymore.

Education is not meant to be online. Human interaction is needed. If you want to teach yourself with books and not interact with anyone, there is the public library, which incidentally is still closed to the public in my jurisdiction, but they are lending out books curbside. Those of you who think YouTube is equivalent to teaching, be my guest and watch as many hours of it as you'd like.

As another poster said, asynchronous online classes are nothing more than gussed up correspondence courses. They have video. That is the only difference. I'm done.

[Sasha2014]

That is just your opinion. I love online classes. I am a nontraditional self employed student and cant be bothered driving back and forth for classes when I can learn on my own time and participate on zoom interactive lectures from professors and other students. I am in my 40's and could care less about interacting with other students for social purposes, lol.

[StateOne]

Online is okay, and the only realistic possibility for many folks (ie working professionals seeking to complete a degree). Online also has some utility for the traditionally-aged college student knocking out various courses for their degree, particularly compared to sitting in a massive lecture hall course.

But online is NOT as good as most traditional, face-to-face classroom lecture and discussion courses. Especially when enrollments in the course are smaller (say, less than 50 students). That in-person interaction — and all the social and intellectual dynamics that come with it — cannot be replicated online. The day that online classes supplant much of the education at the nation’s top universities is when you’ll know online is really good. And that day is nowhere on the horizon.

[L210]

Empirical studies have found that the learning outcomes for older adults are not substantially different between online and on-campus programs. Students 18-23 tend to struggle in online courses. After completing my first master's degree online, I got into a competitive, funded PhD program. I've also been hired for competitive jobs with thousands of applicants. Employers almost always assume that I earned my undergraduate and master's degrees on campus because there's no way to tell that I attended online. My GRE scores were high, I usually score high on civil service tests, and I passed the Foreign Service Officer Test. If you're smart, you're smart. If you're dumb, you're dumb. Those with a lower aptitude for their field should probably choose a ground program.

As for which subjects you shouldn't do online, I would avoid laboratory sciences and any other subject that requires hands-on training. It still may be okay to complete some general education and elective courses online, but not the entire program. The liberal arts include the natural sciences, humanities, mathematics, and social sciences. Most natural sciences should not be done completely online; everything else is okay for online delivery. And, criminal justice is a social science, which makes it a liberal art. Certain business fields have highly competitive job markets: finance and accounting. Those two fields are more competitive than most of the liberal arts.

[greenvillebuckeye]

Originally Posted by Bridge781

Will it replace brick and mortar university? Feels like online education is all the rage.... but most parents are still sending their kids to the best on campus program they can afford.

Edx and coursera seem to be the two big platforms. You can now get masters degrees. Is it worth it ? Seems like everyone is obsessed with credentials and degrees and getting skilled for life. Does it ever end?

Edx is trying to get corporations on board for employees to take courses. With the way employees are worked it’s rare to have much time for classes especially if you have a family. The courses still take work. Seems like the online platforms just want people’s money.

Having done undergrad entirely in person and grad school later on entirely online / virtual, doing my grad work online felt like I was simply checking boxes rather than learning anything. I did learn some things but 80-90% of the time I just felt like I was doing work for the sake of checking it off my to-do list that week.