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College is about SO much more than completing course credits to get a degree. It’s also the friendships and connections; attending and participating in the various campus activities - lectures, concerts, plays, research symposia; the conversations with faculty and experts; getting resume-quality experience in labs, programs, projects, internships etc.
Yes, community college is the less expensive option. But most CC’s don’t have a campus life with all the other things that matter.
The best value for most people is their state flagship public university. These colleges usually offer good quality programs, diverse experiences, and affordability. Don’t have the grades/scores to get into your state flagship? Look at the next best big state university option (Kent State U vs Ohio State, NC State vs. NC Chapel Hill; Texas State vs. UT Austin; etc)
Worst value is probably small private schools: unless it’s one of the high prestige liberal arts colleges (Wellesley, Swarthmore, etc), most smaller private schools cost a lot and are of middling quality. Handy metrics to evaluate private school quality: admission rate (lower = better) and size of the school’s endowment (Bigger = better)
The highly elite, big name fancy schools are mostly worth the money - a CHYMPS-level degree (Columbia, Harvard, Yale, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, etc) is a life-altering opportunity that, for most, will yield enormous and varied life opportunities. Few get in, but if it is a possibility it should be taken.
There is also a lot of growth when a student rejects the status quo.
I thought my friend was kind of crazy or out-of-step when she insisted her children attend a community college before transferring to a four-year college.
There is so much pressure from peers to attend the best school possible. It's like a fever coming over a student to conform to the norm. Even parents get into the bragging of college acceptances. To stand against this tide is pretty impressive. It takes a certain amount of maturity.
I really admire my friend now for her sticking to her guns. Her children have grown into mature and capable young adults.
BTW, one of mine lived on campus at a private college. The college was small with small class size. He worked for one professor as a research assistant. Great experience. Another kid commuted to college. It was twenty minutes away from home. Also had a great experience and close relationship with professors.
When I attended college, the drinking age was 18. My day when we got a pitch of beer while dancing in the college pub. We didn't need to pre-game because we could purchase alcohol. Today, kids start college at 18 and can't legally drink until almost graduation. As a result, kids pre-game. They drink harder alcohol in high qualities. They are more drunk and less in control. It wouldn't be a bad thing to skip this.
I totally agree that raising the drinking age to 21 and closing on campus Rathskellers and bars, has ushered in a generation of students who are heavy drinkers, alcoholics, and more deaths from alcohol poisoning.
Yes. College is an investment that changes the course of an individual's life - in a way that a brand new car never will. I can't believe that some parents are still offering the choice of a 4 year residential college or a car. No one bats an eye when a $35 or 45K loan is taken out to buy a vehicle.
No one screams, "that's OUTRAGEOUS!"
When it comes to college? People, especially on City Data, freak out. I don't know why.
Trade school is NOT the same as College. Community college is not the same as a residential college.
I am really against is forcing ANY student into any major that does not appeal to them and for which they have no aptitude or passion.
As a college advisor, I saw this time and time again. Students with talent and passion for a subject such as Social Work, forced by brainwashed parents to major in a STEM subject, only to receive mediocre grades - or worse.
People are gifted in different ways.
As to cost, some state universities are tuition-free for residents. A great deal! My home state of NY has that option.
All private colleges are not out of reach financially. Some parents focus on certain colleges - and majors - to the detriment of their student children.
Shop around. Urge your student to do their best in HS, as there are many well-endowed colleges that you may not have heard about that have good endowments and are anxious to distribute these funds to the right students.
Do not listen to those who say that college is out of reach for YOUR children. Frequently, the loudest voices in this area come from politicians and celebrities who will do almost ANYTHING to get THEIR KIDS into a good college - but will attempt to steer your child towards an overpriced trade school or military service.
Depending on what statistics you read, around half of all college students never graduate. For many, I would think that would be the worst of both worlds - no degree AND a student loan burden.
I don't know if my kids will listen to me but after reading and seeing how expensive all the costs are I would highly encourage them to live at home for the first two years and attend a local college or junior college. I have one that is a senior in high school, has offers from several schools. First- in-state is a no brainer. I've at least convinced my oldest of that. Second, the "other" costs are brutal-- between living on campus, the meal plan, rec activities, man...... live at home and then transfer if you want after the first two years. Just thinking and trying to avoid debt.
I lived at home 3 of the 4 years of college. I enjoyed that more than living on a campus. I know everyone's situation is different though.
Thoughts?
I commuted from home when I attended college. It certainly saved my parents a lot of money.
I hate living in dorms or apartments anyway, so it worked out fine for me.
College is about SO much more than completing course credits to get a degree. It’s also the friendships and connections; attending and participating in the various campus activities - lectures, concerts, plays, research symposia; the conversations with faculty and experts; getting resume-quality experience in labs, programs, projects, internships etc.
Yes, community college is the less expensive option. But most CC’s don’t have a campus life with all the other things that matter.
The best value for most people is their state flagship public university. These colleges usually offer good quality programs, diverse experiences, and affordability. Don’t have the grades/scores to get into your state flagship? Look at the next best big state university option (Kent State U vs Ohio State, NC State vs. NC Chapel Hill; Texas State vs. UT Austin; etc)
Worst value is probably small private schools: unless it’s one of the high prestige liberal arts colleges (Wellesley, Swarthmore, etc), most smaller private schools cost a lot and are of middling quality. Handy metrics to evaluate private school quality: admission rate (lower = better) and size of the school’s endowment (Bigger = better)
The highly elite, big name fancy schools are mostly worth the money - a CHYMPS-level degree (Columbia, Harvard, Yale, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, etc) is a life-altering opportunity that, for most, will yield enormous and varied life opportunities. Few get in, but if it is a possibility it should be taken.
Yes and no. These schools do offer the most robust need-based aid packages, by far, and can allow families well into the upper middle class to send their children without having to take out a single loan.
If you’re in the gap where you’re too wealthy to get aid, but not wealthy enough to pay full freight without taking on debt, it might not be so worthwhile. For one thing, if you can gain acceptance to universities of this echelon, you can probably get significant merit scholarships at schools the next tier down (Tufts, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, etc.). If you know (or are reasonably) certain you want to go to graduate or professional school, it’s better to save some money to minimize (and perhaps even avoid) graduate/professional school debt.
The flagship-level state schools are a fantastic undergraduate choice for many (I’m a proud alum of one), but they tend to not have as much dedicated need- or merit-based aid to give out. My school was an exception to that rule, but that was somewhat unusual (and I’m unsure if it’s still the case).
In my Ivy League lawl skool class of ~250, there were 12 Penn State alums—the third most represented UG institution after UPenn and Yale.
Yes and no. These schools do offer the most robust need-based aid packages, by far, and can allow families well into the upper middle class to send their children without having to take out a single loan.
If you’re in the gap where you’re too wealthy to get aid, but not wealthy enough to pay full freight without taking on debt, it might not be so worthwhile. For one thing, if you can gain acceptance to universities of this echelon, you can probably get significant merit scholarships at schools the next tier down (Tufts, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, etc.). If you know (or are reasonably) certain you want to go to graduate or professional school, it’s better to save some money to minimize (and perhaps even avoid) graduate/professional school debt.
The flagship-level state schools are a fantastic undergraduate choice for many (I’m a proud alum of one), but they tend to not have as much dedicated need- or merit-based aid to give out. My school was an exception to that rule, but that was somewhat unusual (and I’m unsure if it’s still the case).
In my Ivy League lawl skool class of ~250, there were 12 Penn State alums—the third most represented UG institution after UPenn and Yale.
The state school experience depends on the state. There are some states that have very generous scholarship programs that will make going to an in-state school tuition free or very affordable for the vast majority of students. In others, the state may consider the flagship an “elite” institution and give little aid for that, but may provide better packages for the non-flagship schools. Michigan comes in mind for this. I had a friend who went to Michigan with no aid, but said he had a good scholarship option at Michigan State.
I have a coworker who went to a less prestigious state university in California and end up at a much better law school. My school is comparable to his and we had a lot of students from very small liberal arts schools. Many of the star students came from those schools, so it is good to be open to all options.
The problem with going the CC route for us, was that all of our kids got sizable scholarships which were not available if they did not start as freshmen in the college (kinda sorta freshmen - most of them started with about a year of AP credits,but they still took 4+ years anyway). The savings of a CC was not worth giving up the scholarships.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 04-03-2021 at 07:34 AM..
The state school experience depends on the state. There are some states that have very generous scholarship programs that will make going to an in-state school tuition free or very affordable for the vast majority of students. In others, the state may consider the flagship an “elite” institution and give little aid for that, but may provide better packages for the non-flagship schools. Michigan comes in mind for this. I had a friend who went to Michigan with no aid, but said he had a good scholarship option at Michigan State.
I have a coworker who went to a less prestigious state university in California and end up at a much better law school. My school is comparable to his and we had a lot of students from very small liberal arts schools. Many of the star students came from those schools, so it is good to be open to all options.
That’s a very good point that I hadn’t thought of. While my UG school (Pitt) offers the same quality of education and is actually more selective than the flagship state university (Penn State) Pitt’s Honors College went all-out in attracting students with generous merit aid packages, whereas Penn State’s Honors College gave all of its students a $3,500 annual tuition discount and called it a day.
This was almost 15 years ago. I don’t know what either school’s honors college is doing these days.
An undergraduate degree does not really prepare you well for entering the workforce,companies still have to train you ,be it IT or Accounting or engineering.
4 years is a long time to acquire basic skills, some of it should have been done in high school.
Community college,the calibre of teachers and students often are sub par,but it does you some money by staying at home
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