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Probably the biggest money saving tip is for students to take college seriously: don't major in party hearty. If your student is clueless about what he or she wants to do in life or just wants to go to college because his/her friends are all going, maybe he or she should spend a year or two working at Mickey D's or Walmart or join the military while he or she figures out his/her life.
Yeah that last paragraph is bad advice. That's how people.stay in poverty forever. Men might as well have unprotected sex and women might as well take fertility treatment. Get some ge ed stuff done if you don't know what you want to do. The military maybe but only if that's really.tye right choice. And even then that's not the free college a lot of people think it is.
I view college as "Adulthood with Training Wheels" which can only be experienced by living away from Mom & Dad.
On the other hand, costs have sky rocketed out of control. I am so glad our kids entered college 20 years ago when costs were merely unreasonable.
A good analogy "Adulthood with Training Wheels".
I agree that the costs are high, but there are things that can be done to ameliorate that. Going back ten years is not going to happen.
My children were "RAs" (Resident Advisors") for a couple of years. Their dorms were free, plus they received a small stipend. Most important, the personal growth and increased independence and self-assuredness that they learned from acting as a peer mentor and problem solver - from fire drills to homesickness to learning how to ask questions, listen and lead - those skills have proven to be priceless.
College is about SO much more than completing course credits to get a degree. It’s also the friendships and connections; attending and participating in the various campus activities - lectures, concerts, plays, research symposia; the conversations with faculty and experts; getting resume-quality experience in labs, programs, projects, internships etc.
Yes, community college is the less expensive option. But most CC’s don’t have a campus life with all the other things that matter.
The best value for most people is their state flagship public university. These colleges usually offer good quality programs, diverse experiences, and affordability. Don’t have the grades/scores to get into your state flagship? Look at the next best big state university option (Kent State U vs Ohio State, NC State vs. NC Chapel Hill; Texas State vs. UT Austin; etc)
Worst value is probably small private schools: unless it’s one of the high prestige liberal arts colleges (Wellesley, Swarthmore, etc), most smaller private schools cost a lot and are of middling quality. Handy metrics to evaluate private school quality: admission rate (lower = better) and size of the school’s endowment (Bigger = better)
The highly elite, big name fancy schools are mostly worth the money - a CHYMPS-level degree (Columbia, Harvard, Yale, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, etc) is a life-altering opportunity that, for most, will yield enormous and varied life opportunities. Few get in, but if it is a possibility it should be taken.
Totally agree. It doesn't matter that forty years ago, an HS diploma and minimal skills could land a job in the typing pool or assistant, assistant manager where an ambitious guy could "work his way up" (back then, women could only work their way up to maybe Head Bookkeeper or Office Manager but that's another issue). What matters today is what today's employers expect from their entry employees. Pretty much, a four year degree is part of those expectations.
There are some fields where associate degrees and certificates are still acceptable for entry level positions like veterinary tech, ultrasound tech, registered nurse. However, most have licensing and/or certification requirements as well. Generally, you probably will need at least a bachelor's degree to advance within your field.
As for for-profit schools that offer career training, almost all of their courses of study can be found at your local community college at a fraction of the cost, including welding, vet tech, electrician, nursing etc. Some city/states may offer the same career training offered by for-profits in public school vocational programs for free; for example, in New York, county BOCES vocational programs frequently offer cosmetology, culinary arts, auto tech, etc. to high school students.
YES! What happened 40 years ago does not matter. Tuition 40 years ago doesn't matter. What matters is NOW and the future.
Ronald Reagan cut federal grants and privatized loans. Bad policy for those of us who are middle income or less. Meanwhile, his children studied Theatre Arts and Dance in college. He and his wife footed the bill.
Now, many conservatives are promoting "Trade School" yet NOT FUNDING public trade school programs. Yes, the NYS BOCES program offers career training at a manageable price. I am originally from NYS.
In nursing, for example, it is possible to start LPN training tuition-free while still in high school. After HS, graduation, students can continue to an LPN to RN bridge program to become ADNs (Associate Degree Nurses) with an RN. From there, they can get their BSN and beyond.
I have an HS friend who came from a lower-income family. She began as an LPN and now has her MSN RN as an Obstetric Nurse Practitioner.
Yes, there are some good associate degrees available. The FACT is that Associate Degree Nurses are strongly encouraged to obtain at least their 4-year degrees.
NYS is a state that "gets it". NY has a network of BOCES locations that often articulate with community colleges. Education is plentiful and available in NY.
Not so where I currently live in OH. For-profit, overpriced "Career Schools dominate NE Ohio". In OH, an LPN certificate at a trade school will cost you upwards of $30K.
That same school offers an Associate Degree in Medical Assisting. That pays even less, and few Medical Assistants earn more than $25K per year, and there are no benefits. Part-time jobs are the norm.
At the end of the day, we need politicians who want YOUR CHILD to succeed and are willing to recognize the importance of a well-educated populace.
For-profit trade schools and colleges prey upon lower-income, first-generation college students.
Study after study shows that first Gen college students do best at small liberal arts colleges. The colleges that so many people seem to see as frivolous.
Perhaps the focus should be on For-Profit schools. Why should federally subsidized loans and grants be issued to colleges and trade schools with abysmally low graduation rates?
I agree that the costs are high, but there are things that can be done to ameliorate that. Going back ten years is not going to happen.
My children were "RAs" (Resident Advisors") for a couple of years. Their dorms were free, plus they received a small stipend. Most important, the personal growth and increased independence and self-assuredness that they learned from acting as a peer mentor and problem solver - from fire drills to homesickness to learning how to ask questions, listen and lead - those skills have proven to be priceless.
Employers love that.
In my decades of work experience in different fields, I have never once heard an employer ask anyone whether they stayed at home or lived in a dorm during college. It can make for good casual conversation among old buddies though.
If you can’t afford, or don’t want to pay for the typical college experience, that is a fine decision. If another family can pay for it, and see the value, that is fine too. You can teach your child about debt and finances and still send them away to college- the 2 are not mutually exclusive.
You may have loved living at home through college but many other students would have preferred to go to another school not near their home. That may have been a better decision for their career and life goals.
It is unfair, and not true, to assume your college student will be getting drunk every night. A sorority or fraternity may just lead to the connections they need in their adult lives.
Many many successful Young adults went away To college. I venture to guess that the more successful ones went to a residential university for their undergraduate years.
I agree. Each of my children has a different plan in mind, because they are all very different people; a one-size-fits-all plan would not be logical.
One adamantly does not want to go away to school: he wants to stay home, work, and to a local school. I fully support that, as I know he would NOT enjoy the "college experience".
One would be miserable living at home and commuting to a local college, because she has that personality where she would thrive throwing herself into campus life. So long as she is ready for that level of freedom and responsibility, I support that as well.
One... he's the wild card. Incredibly smart, but by middle school he came to the conclusion that being gifted only got him a bigger workload. He is content to coast through school and collect easy A's. While he could easily get a handsome scholarship, he has no interest and wants to be a hair stylist. I support that, too, especially because I know if ten years down the line he decides he wants to go to university, he's type who jump right in without missing a beat.
I agree. Each of my children has a different plan in mind, because they are all very different people; a one-size-fits-all plan would not be logical.
One adamantly does not want to go away to school: he wants to stay home, work, and to a local school. I fully support that, as I know he would NOT enjoy the "college experience".
One would be miserable living at home and commuting to a local college, because she has that personality where she would thrive throwing herself into campus life. So long as she is ready for that level of freedom and responsibility, I support that as well.
One... he's the wild card. Incredibly smart, but by middle school he came to the conclusion that being gifted only got him a bigger workload. He is content to coast through school and collect easy A's. While he could easily get a handsome scholarship, he has no interest and wants to be a hair stylist. I support that, too, especially because I know if ten years down the line he decides he wants to go to university, he's type who jump right in without missing a beat.
I hold to the same philosophy as well.
And who knows, maybe your third child will become the next Vidal Sassoon. My hairstylist owns 3 other salons.
Is incurring $20k in college loans and still ending up working in a dead-end job because you failed out of school a "better choice"? Most kids who wind up on academic probation or are dismissed for academic reasons land there because they don't go to class, don't do assignments, and don't study for exams not because college level work is too hard for them. Some kids simply aren't mature enough at 18 to be out on their own. Without having even some career goals, other kids spend more time on the "college experience" than on their studies with long-term consequences.
You are right that delaying college can have serious and long term negative consequences but attending college doesn't guarantee better outcomes. Date rape remains a serious threat to young women in general, and may be even more of a threat to young women living away from home for the first time, although the situation is much better than when I was a co-ed. Drugs and alcohol are still problems on and off campuses. Unprotected sexual interactions still happen whether young people are college students or are out in the work force or military.
I don't have any easy for how to deal with the situation. I think that the OP's idea of students attending a local school if possible for at least a year or two might be a good compromise for some students, especially those who are immature or don't have real clear career goals or ambitions. I just know that being 20 or 21 years old and saddled with $20k or more in student loan debt and unable to get more than low wage, dead-end jobs is a pretty dire consequence in itself.
I think you've really missed my point on some of these. Those that are not ready to move out at 18 or handle the workload in my opinion are immature and likely going to be basement dwellers. You've lived with your parents for 18 years and been in school 12 years. Grow the **** up. As far as career goals that's the point of taking a few classes. Working at Walmart is not going to help with that.
The unprotected sex and pregnancy comment is meant illustrate the point that people tend to knock up or get knocked up in these situations.
Yes, getting saddled with that debt is sad, but again, grow the **** up. If college didn't work out find a trade or something else and get out of your parents' basement.
I do wonder why students do the expensive dorm / college food thing,.... they are not at College for 'The Experience' ... :Many CC profs are very excellent (experienced in their fields ACTUALLY working for a living!!!, also CC students (often adults) bring a lot of experience to the classroom and projects... if they can get a REAL job in the field they plan to pursue.
So this comment gives insight into the heart of the debate which, ultimately, is -- at least to some extent -- about different goals, values, and approaches toward a college education. Is a key part of pursuing a degree about 'The Experience', or is it mostly about earning course credits toward a degree? Do university instructors know what they're talking about because they "ACTUALLY work for a living," or are they non-workers who are hermetically sealed in their comfortable ivory tower? Does one pursue a degree to get a "REAL job" (whatever that means), or is employment just one of the goals of pursing a degree? I provide no answers here because, of course, the answers differ for different people.
I do not get why college must be 'expensive', as there are other choices (for school and living arrangements). I do feel colleges have got by with raising rates because mommy (who is paying) is much less likely to realize or complain about costs than Jr is if he / she were footing the entire bill and making it an expense relevant to their future employment or contribution to society, and ability to pay back.
There's been quite a bit of research on rising college costs, actually. The reasons are complex and varied. The rec center "rock climbing wall" seems to get so much media attention, but such campus amenities aren't the real reason. But there are few that ARE significant:
Productivity gains that happen throughout the economy and produce downward pressure on costs have not had the same impact in academia. Businesses today produce more output with fewer man-hours than 20 or 50 years ago. But not so much in higher ed. A typical university professor today teaches roughly the same number of students as 20 or 50 years ago. And the support staff -- the department administrative assistants, laboratory staff, janitors, etc. haven't changed much either. Their skills are still needed. Yes, there have been some gains: universities have, for example, pared back HR departments. But the productivity output of educating x number of students over the past 50 years has NOT increased like, say, the productivity increase of a Chevrolet factory or the ability of McDonalds to produce and sell hamburgers. In some other parts of the economy, there has also been low productivity growth. But these sectors have largely held costs in line because the skills -- and thus wages -- are generally low and have been stagnant. Higher ed is many things, but it is NOT a low skill business -- just the opposite, in fact. Wages have risen as the specialized skills that are central to higher education have increased in value. But here's the key: output hasn’t increased at the same pace. The n of students has not increased at the same pace. And on top of that, there’s also health care expenses: how much was the typical university employee’s health insurance premium in 1975? Most university workers are full-time employees; academia isn't a retail or factory operation where costs can be kept low by employing lots of part-time workers and not providing them benefits like health insurance. As we all know, health care costs – most of it carried by the university itself – have risen dramatically. Again, this has happened throughout the economy. But it has hit higher ed harder because of the output differential.
Last edited by StateOne; 04-05-2021 at 10:56 AM..
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