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No, that's incorrect. Anyone with a license can legally diagnose without sending them to "a doctor for a final say". That's what the license allows you to do (aside from the masters the degree). A masters level counselor with no further training cannot diagnose or even make a suggestion of a diagnoses. That would be misrepresentation. Once a person receives a license, they are at liberty to diagnose.
If you have a license, you can diagnose in SOME STATES, while if you have a PHD, you can diagnose in EVERY STATE and EVERY COUNTRY ON EARTH. All you have to do is get one license as a PHD, complete a residency, and that's it. Maybe, if you move to another country, you might have to pass an exam, but that's it, you can be a psychologist anywhere, while someone with an LPC can only practice in a few states, and never in another country, and almost never teach.
Also, it takes almost as much time to get an LPC as it does to get a PHD, and it actually usually cost MORE to get a master's than to get a PHD, and LPCs make, on average, 10-20 thousand dollars a year less than PHDs.
Also...it is the whole "I don't have a degree, but I'll still treat you" thing that skeves allot of people out. Would you want a nurse-practictioner, or a doctor seeing if you have cancer or not? On the same token, would you want someone with two years of grad-school while they worked as a bartender part time or a PHD telling you you have attachment issues?
As someone who has had some HORRABLE experiences with councilors without the proper education ( "well, I see you don't like sports...you know, it's okay to be gay",<----actuall words of a school councilor talking to me for the first time) I can tell you exactly why having a PHD or a psyD matters.
I would not want someone with two years of grad-school picking my inards apart while I'm on a surgical bed, even if they're a few dollars cheaper, and I would not want someone with two years of grad-school picking my mind apart either, even if they're a few dollars cheaper.
That's why PHDs make more money....
Also, there is the immortal, unnamebale statisfaction of being called "doctor" and "professor"...
A Bacherlor's in psychology? $44,000
A Master's degree in psychology? $ 30,000
Being called "professor" and "doctor" legally by people where ever you go on the planet? PRICELESS
If you have a license, you can diagnose in SOME STATES, while if you have a PHD, you can diagnose in EVERY STATE and EVERY COUNTRY ON EARTH. All you have to do is get one license as a PHD, complete a residency, and that's it. Maybe, if you move to another country, you might have to pass an exam, but that's it, you can be a psychologist anywhere, while someone with an LPC can only practice in a few states, and never in another country, and almost never teach.
Also, it takes almost as much time to get an LPC as it does to get a PHD, and it actually usually cost MORE to get a master's than to get a PHD, and LPCs make, on average, 10-20 thousand dollars a year less than PHDs.
Also...it is the whole "I don't have a degree, but I'll still treat you" thing that skeves allot of people out. Would you want a nurse-practictioner, or a doctor seeing if you have cancer or not? On the same token, would you want someone with two years of grad-school while they worked as a bartender part time or a PHD telling you you have attachment issues?
As someone who has had some HORRABLE experiences with councilors without the proper education ( "well, I see you don't like sports...you know, it's okay to be gay",<----actuall words of a school councilor talking to me for the first time) I can tell you exactly why having a PHD or a psyD matters.
I would not want someone with two years of grad-school picking my inards apart while I'm on a surgical bed, even if they're a few dollars cheaper, and I would not want someone with two years of grad-school picking my mind apart either, even if they're a few dollars cheaper.
Where on earth do you think someone can get a Masters in Counseling in two years????? In my program alone, and I got a Masters in School Counseling, it was three years minimum as one whole year is internship and practicum.
You almost are contradicting yourself here saying, on one hand, that it is harder to get an LPC yet you call those with an LPC ill-equipped to work with people who need therapy. Your statement, 'All you have to do is get a license, complete a residency and that's it' makes it sound so simple yet you then go on to basically say that those without PhD's are idiots. Which is it?
You do realize that in order to get an LPC you need at least 2000 supervised hours, right?
For those that truly care about people and the position, it is not about the money or being called Dr. I am actually shocked you said that and expect to be taken seriously.
Finally, and it has to be said, I am having a hard time taking what you say seriously when you can not even spell the word counselor! Sorry, I have tried to ignore it but as a licensed counselor, it is like nails on a chalkboard to see that!
I have MBA/MS degrees, earned both while working full-time in a stressful job. I don't think I could commit to a PHD program while working a 50-60 hr work week after the experience of getting these degrees. I just don't see the financial benefit in my field. However, if I were in a position of being able to go 18-24 months without working, I probaby would get a PHD so other options like teaching were available to me. For those that got PHDs, did you work full-time as well? How long did it take you to complete your program?
Where on earth do you think someone can get a Masters in Counseling in two years????? In my program alone, and I got a Masters in School Counseling, it was three years minimum as one whole year is internship and practicum.
You almost are contradicting yourself here saying, on one hand, that it is harder to get an LPC yet you call those with an LPC ill-equipped to work with people who need therapy. Your statement, 'All you have to do is get a license, complete a residency and that's it' makes it sound so simple yet you then go on to basically say that those without PhD's are idiots. Which is it?
You do realize that in order to get an LPC you need at least 2000 supervised hours, right?
For those that truly care about people and the position, it is not about the money or being called Dr. I am actually shocked you said that and expect to be taken seriously.
Finally, and it has to be said, I am having a hard time taking what you say seriously when you can not even spell the word counselor! Sorry, I have tried to ignore it but as a licensed counselor, it is like nails on a chalkboard to see that!
I never said it was easier to get a PHD, only that, once you get a PHD and complete a residency, that's it, you are a psychologist anywhere, while someone with a LPC can only work in a few states. Also, it might cost almost as much to get a LPC, but that's it. Cost and value are two different things.
I am going from my own experience...I was once labeled as having depression by a councilor at highschool because I didn't care about fashion! And then there's that "trained professional" who could not understand how an American male who does not like American football could NOT be suffering from questioning his sexuallity...that is not what you can expect from a PHD, while people with a simple "councilor" degree are, from what I have seen, clueless..."he plays Dungeons and Dragons, therefore, he has to have issues with seperating reality from fiction" is another one I've heard while in school.
As for spelling...is it center, or centre? Councilor, or counselor? TOM-ATO or TOM-OTO?
For those that got PHDs, did you work full-time as well? How long did it take you to complete your program?
I did not do outside work while getting my degree. It wasn't even allowed in my program. I worked as a research assistant and a teaching assistant with the department which provided enough money to live comfortably while in school. My program took 5 years, which is actually really fast for a PhD. My husband is finishing his PhD in Computer Science, and it takes everyone in his program at least 7 years to finish. He also works an average of 70 hours a week on his research. It really does depend tremendously on the field, the caliber of the school, and the particular department.
And, like I said, a clinical psychologist is someone who has a PHD or a PsyD. No exceptions.
Yes, I am a clinical psychologist with a Ph.D. in Clinical Child Psychology. However, many school psychologists are also doctoral level. But, even though they may have a doctoral degree, they still are not supposed to be diagnosing psychiatric disorders.
So, the point is, that it depends upon your specialty. A Masters' in Psychology (even Clinical Psychology) is not sufficient to be a licensed psychologist in most states. There are exceptions; in North Carolina, there are some masters' level "psychologists." However, this is very controversial, and most of us with doctoral level Psychology degrees (Ph.D. or Psy.D.) don't believe that they should be able to call themselves psychologists. That term should be reserved for only doctoral level individuals. Masters' level individuals (in social work or LPC's) can practice independently and make diagnoses and call themselves "psychotherapists." A Master's in Psychology is mainly viewed as a rung in the ladder on the way to a Ph.D./Psy.D., and is not really much good on its own.
I am going from my own experience...I was once labeled as having depression by a councilor at highschool because I didn't care about fashion! And then there's that "trained professional" who could not understand how an American male who does not like American football could NOT be suffering from questioning his sexuallity...that is not what you can expect from a PHD, while people with a simple "councilor" degree are, from what I have seen, clueless..."he plays Dungeons and Dragons, therefore, he has to have issues with seperating reality from fiction" is another one I've heard while in school.
As for spelling...is it center, or centre? Councilor, or counselor? TOM-ATO or TOM-OTO?
If you look up the word councilor in the dictionary, it says 'someone belonging to a council.' A COUNSELOR, i.e. one who helps others, is spelled C-O-U-N-S-E-L-O-R.
Tomato, tomoto? There is no such word as tomoto.
You had one bad experience with a high school counselor, do not claim to know all about the profession because of one person, please. That is crazy. There are bad everythings out there, bad doctors, bad teachers, bad construction workers, bad etc., etc. However, I would not claim that everyone in one profession needed to go out and get another degree simply because one person in their profession is an idiot. I am personally a Masters Level counselor and take MUCH offense to you calling counselors clueless. Clueless is basing your opinion on one person you have met and claiming that all like professionals are the same. That, and not knowing how to spell said profession. THAT is clueless.
There are PLENTY great COUNSELORS out there, sorry you have never met any.
I never said it was easier to get a PHD, only that, once you get a PHD and complete a residency, that's it, you are a psychologist anywhere, while someone with a LPC can only work in a few states. Also, it might cost almost as much to get a LPC, but that's it. Cost and value are two different things.
I am going from my own experience...I was once labeled as having depression by a councilor at highschool because I didn't care about fashion! And then there's that "trained professional" who could not understand how an American male who does not like American football could NOT be suffering from questioning his sexuallity...that is not what you can expect from a PHD, while people with a simple "councilor" degree are, from what I have seen, clueless..."he plays Dungeons and Dragons, therefore, he has to have issues with seperating reality from fiction" is another one I've heard while in school.
As for spelling...is it center, or centre? Councilor, or counselor? TOM-ATO or TOM-OTO?
Sorry for the experience that you went through but I don't think it's accurate (or fair) to categorize the entire profession based on one terrible counselor. Personally, If I were in search of a mental health professional, I would do my research, educate myself on what the credentialing really means, and try not to make assumptions without first finding out what this person is really capable of doing for me.
[quote=victorianpunk;4355417]If you have a license, you can diagnose in SOME STATES, while if you have a PHD, you can diagnose in EVERY STATE and EVERY COUNTRY ON EARTH. All you have to do is get one license as a PHD, complete a residency, and that's it. Maybe, if you move to another country, you might have to pass an exam, but that's it, you can be a psychologist anywhere, while someone with an LPC can only practice in a few states, and never in another country, and almost never teach.
Also, it takes almost as much time to get an LPC as it does to get a PHD, and it actually usually cost MORE to get a master's than to get a PHD, and LPCs make, on average, 10-20 thousand dollars a year less than PHDs.
I can only speak to you as a Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology, but here's the progression I went through. 1.5 years to get the M.A. in Psychology; not a terminal degree, just a stepping stone. Another 4.5 years to complete the coursework, dissertation, and the 12-month Predoctoral Internship. Then a 12-month Postdoctoral Fellowship and taking the EPPP exam to become licensed. There is a national portion, and then each state differs as far as written/oral exam. Georgia required a short written State Law exam and an Oral exam. So, from the day I stepped foot on my Grad. School campus until the day I received my license in the mail was seven years! I don't know how long an LPC program takes, but I don't think it is more than four years total (including internship). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that, but I doubt it.
If I moved to another state, I would still have to fulfill any State Written or Oral exam they require. I passed the national portion of the EPPP with a high enough score to fulfill the requirement of any state, but you still have to jump through all the required hoops.
If you look up the word councilor in the dictionary, it says 'someone belonging to a council.' A COUNSELOR, i.e. one who helps others, is spelled C-O-U-N-S-E-L-O-R.
Tomato, tomoto? There is no such word as tomoto.
I was spelling out the pronunciation differences between the two, that is what the hyphen and the uppercase letter were meant to imply. In America, we pronounce it "TOM-ATOE" while in England, it's "TOM-OTTO" Depending on where you live, words are spelled and pronounced differently.
Quote:
You had one bad experience with a high school counselor, do not claim to know all about the profession because of one person, please. That is crazy. There are bad everythings out there, bad doctors, bad teachers, bad construction workers, bad etc., etc. However, I would not claim that everyone in one profession needed to go out and get another degree simply because one person in their profession is an idiot. I am personally a Masters Level counselor and take MUCH offense to you calling counselors clueless.
Actually, I'm talking about every single councilor I had in highschool. I suppose there are some good ones...and I suppose some nurse-practioners be able to perform good surgery, but who would you want cutting you open, a nurse-practictionar or a MD?
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Still not quite right.
