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I have a question for the master's level therapists: do you feel that you got enough training in your master's program to be an effective therapist(counseling or clinical social work)? Or do you think you would be better off getting a doctorate? What are the pros and cons to having the master's versus the doctorate in terms of being an effective therapist?
I think more education wouldn't hurt by any means. It's a lot more intense to do the doctorate though.
I think some people are better suited for the psychologist role and others for the MA level therapist. I have met my fair sure of serious PhD's, and while that's fine for some, I'm more a laidback therapist that doesn't want to just label people.
The doctorate degree that I was working on did not teach me to be a better therapist, it was more about diagnosis and disorders. That's a big difference with clinical vs. counseling psychology.
I think more education wouldn't hurt by any means. It's a lot more intense to do the doctorate though.
I think some people are better suited for the psychologist role and others for the MA level therapist. I have met my fair sure of serious PhD's, and while that's fine for some, I'm more a laidback therapist that doesn't want to just label people.
The doctorate degree that I was working on did not teach me to be a better therapist, it was more about diagnosis and disorders. That's a big difference with clinical vs. counseling psychology.
I disagree with much of this. I actually (as a doctoral level therapist) don't feel that I focus as much on diagnosis, etc, whereas many masters levels therapist I work with do (and do a lot of misdiagnosing). That is just based on our experiences!
That being said, I think that at both levels, there are great therapists and horrible therapists. I feel much better trained now than I did when I just had my masters, but that's my preference. If you only want to get a masters, I would also suggest looking at the MSW rather than a straight clinical or counseling degree.
If you only want to get a masters, I would also suggest looking at the MSW rather than a straight clinical or counseling degree.
I'd like to hear more about this. My understanding that getting a general MSW wouldn't give me the skills to become a therapist, but getting a clinical concentration within the MSW would. There are much fewer clinical MSW programs that general ones, it seems. I'm wondering which degree--the licensed clinical social worker or the license in counseling psychology would allow me to be the most effective therapist. What are the pros and cons to getting becoming an LPC versus an LCSW?
Also, what about the PsyD? Is it worth the hefty tuition for this degree?
I'd like to hear more about this. My understanding that getting a general MSW wouldn't give me the skills to become a therapist, but getting a clinical concentration within the MSW would. There are much fewer clinical MSW programs that general ones, it seems. I'm wondering which degree--the licensed clinical social worker or the license in counseling psychology would allow me to be the most effective therapist. What are the pros and cons to getting becoming an LPC versus an LCSW?
Also, what about the PsyD? Is it worth the hefty tuition for this degree?
Regarding the PsyD, I'd say no to the tuition question as you can get a PhD for free and get the exact same training!!! (BTW, I'll admit, I'm biased, as I have the PhD)
As for the MSW vs. LCPC etc, you should first look at the licensing laws regarding these degrees in the state of interest. With a lot of masters programs in clinical/counseling, the expectation is that you will actually be getting your doctorate. Thus, many people I know have gone to get an MSW as a terminal degree. Regarding what makes you more effective as a therapist, your degree is what you make of it to some extent. Making sure you get great training, etc. I would start to look at individual programs to see 1) what classes they offer (e.g., how many do they offer regarding specific therapy techniques) and 2) what external counseling experiences you'll be able to get to help improve your skills.
It depends on what you want to get out of your education, what you will use it for, and where you live.
I have my Master's in Counseling Education and considered a Ph.D but decided against it. For one, the cost was out of reach and I was already in debt from my undergrad and graduate degrees. Also, I was happy with the education I received. I didn't feel the Ph.D would add much more than debt and work. The only reason I would have gone for the Ph.D was to be able to practice but the state of PA just recently licensed us. I would talk with someone who already is working in the field and see if the Ph.D would make a big difference. What they tell you in school about how useful your degree will be is a lot different than is really out there!
It depends on what you want to get out of your education, what you will use it for, and where you live.
I have my Master's in Counseling Education and considered a Ph.D but decided against it. For one, the cost was out of reach and I was already in debt from my undergrad and graduate degrees. Also, I was happy with the education I received. I didn't feel the Ph.D would add much more than debt and work. The only reason I would have gone for the Ph.D was to be able to practice but the state of PA just recently licensed us. I would talk with someone who already is working in the field and see if the Ph.D would make a big difference. What they tell you in school about how useful your degree will be is a lot different than is really out there!
Also, just to point out regarding doctoral debt is that PhD's in clinical and counseling are almost always free.
Again, you need to figure out what is best for you. I knew I wanted to get a PhD, but if you only want the masters, you can definitely find a way to make it work well. Don't go into a PhD program unless you are fully dedicated.
So do any of you know the annual salary difference between and counselor with a masters compared to a counselor with their doctorate. And when you get a doctorate in counseling is that the same as a clinical psychologist? Because I was under the impression that they are two different things. I am in a bind because I am working towards a BA in psychology and then intend on going the masters in counseling route, but do not know what the steps are after recieving a masters to get a doctorate. If any of you can answer any of these questions I would greatly appreciate it.
So do any of you know the annual salary difference between and counselor with a masters compared to a counselor with their doctorate. And when you get a doctorate in counseling is that the same as a clinical psychologist? Because I was under the impression that they are two different things. I am in a bind because I am working towards a BA in psychology and then intend on going the masters in counseling route, but do not know what the steps are after recieving a masters to get a doctorate. If any of you can answer any of these questions I would greatly appreciate it.
Salary can start very similar, but can increase much more if you have a doctorate and are in private practice. That being said, if you go the PsyD route you also have 4+ more years of loans. When you get your doctorate in counseling, you can pretty much do the same things as a clinical psychologist, and you will be competing for jobs with them. To get a doctorate, you would generally just apply for the PhD or PsyD straight out of undergrad...no masters needed (you get it along the way). Otherwise, you can get your masters and then apply for the doctorate, but you usually loose 1 out of 2 of the years for your masters (e.g., 1 year will count towards doctorate, 1 won't), so I wouldn't recommend that if you know for sure that you want the doctorate and can get into a doctoral program
All of this being said, don't go into the field thinking its a money maker. When you get your doctorate (so after 5-7 years), you have to do at least a 1 year long postdoc to get licensed. These generally pay (on average) 30K. If you are lucky and don't do a clinical postdoc (so do research or teach), you may make 50K when you are out. Not bad, but considering I make the same as my much younger cousins with just BA's (who just got out of undergrad), you don't do it for the money. For the next several years after that, the salary is about 50K-70K on the absolute high end (more about 50K). And, if you go to a PsyD program, you'll likely end up with 100-150K in loans, which is more than $600/month that you'll have to repay.
I'm not discouraging you at all, as this is my field and I LOVE it, but I am certainly not doing it for the money and I just want you to be informed. Let me know if you have other questions.
Regarding the PsyD, I'd say no to the tuition question as you can get a PhD for free and get the exact same training!!! (BTW, I'll admit, I'm biased, as I have the PhD)
Out of the 100 or so Ph.D.s that I know, maybe 5 of them had a full scholarship. The remainder had small scholarships but financed most of their education through part-time jobs and loans.
My Ph.D. is in Counseling Psychology, not Clinical Psychology, and funding is probably a bit worse in Counseling but it was more interesting to me because at least at the APA-accredited program I attended, our coursework was more varied and we had more freedom than the Clinical students who ended up doing a ton of required research for their professors. They had better financial packages, though, so perhaps the trade off was worth it.
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