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Correct me if I'm wrong but my current GPA is a 2.6 @ 60 credits; regardless I presume at a 2.7 GPA combined with a 4.0 gpa from Umass Amherst; my cumluitive gpa will be a 3.2; right?
I'm confident I can raise my GPA, as the first year I had great GPA; however due to indolence and family problems I faltered. I can revive my GPA. I intend on studying an entire year prior to graduation for my LSATs. So hopefully I'll have a score of 170. And finally I'm interning at a bankruptcy law firm and for the reminder of my undergrad studies I should continue to intern at the same law firm or transfer to a local law firm. And also as you know intelligent and accomplished readers that 75 percent of pre-law students major in Polotical Science or pre-law. Therefore there is no distnigushment(sp) whatsoever and polsci is an easy degree. Therefore I've decided to major in economics(top 50 program); which holds the consensus of being among the most challenging. Will this have a positive influence on my total qualifications?
So with a 3.2/3.0 GPA 170 lsat score, attendance at a top 100 university, 2.5 years of paralegal experience and letter of recommendations from 2+ attorneys. Should I be able to go to T14 school; pref. columbia or nyu??? MY heart is set on a law school in new york and those are the schools my heart desires. And also how would past paralegal job experience factor into acceptance into law school? Also for letter of recommendations is 2/1 formula the way to go?? 2 attorneys; 1 other source. And LOR from lawyers carry more weight than professor LORs, right?
Columbia and NYU are very competitive. They only admit a fraction of applicants.
3.2 is not a bad average, but it isn't outstanding either.
You'll definitely be competing with applicants with higher GPA's.
I do think law firm experience is good for your application.
At any rate, whatever school you want to attend, apply!
If you apply you may not be accepted, if you don't apply you definitely won't be accepted.
Only the admissions folks know if you will get in.
Get great recommendations and write an ass-kickin personal statement.
Good Luck!
By the way there is no such major as pre-law. Pre-law can be art history.
Also, I'm not sure that your stats (75% political science) is correct.
Keep in mind that applications run $50-75 a pop, so if your resources are limited, choose which schools to apply to wisely. If you can afford to send out a dozen or more applications covering a broad sampling of schools from top ten on down to fourth-tier schools, then go for it. If you need to restrict your applications to schools where you stand more than a snowball's chance in hell, I wouldn't bother applying to Columbia or NYU with a GPA like yours unless your LSAT is at least 175.
If you can afford to send out a dozen or more applications covering a broad sampling of schools from top ten on down to fourth-tier schools, then go for it. If you need to restrict your applications to schools where you stand more than a snowball's chance in hell, I wouldn't bother applying to Columbia or NYU with a GPA like yours unless your LSAT is at least 175.
Agreed. A 3.0-3.2 GPA would count for nothing at NYU/Columbia, or Fordham, and would even be problematic at Cardozo or Brooklyn (next down on the NYC-schools' scale). A stratospheric LSAT might bail you out -- though not into NYU/Columbia.
Also:
(1) GPA determination isn't as easy as "add X +Y."
Though you send apps to the schools, the schools get all backup material (GPA, transcript, LSAT results, recommendation letters) from a central source: the Law School Admission Council's LSDAS (document-assembly) unit.
Since schools' GPA standards can differ, LSDAS converts GPAs so they're all on the same scale; your LSDAS-reported GPA might be higher or lower than the school-reported one. These "adjustments" obviously can vary further if you're dealing with two schools and a different number of credits at each.
For substantive info re the whole esoteric reporting process, see LSAC.org Homepage
(2) Have a Plan B, and do _not_ presume that study inevitably produces a stratospheric LSAT score.
The LSAT isn't a garden-variety exam, where diligent study = high score. It also requires test-taking gifts and intuitive math-like, abstract, "game-playing" skills or mindset, and most people have an innate ceiling on these.
I've known brilliant people who studied obsessively for a year, but whose practice tests and final LSAT(s) stayed in the 155-to-160 range. (That includes one friend who ultimately gave up on the law-school idea, got an Ivy PhD, and became an eminent professor and award-winning author of law-related books.)
I've also known a few eccentrics who -- this is not a joke! -- just ho-hum-looked at the material for awhile and got 170+. One of these "flukes" also was so laid-back that he partied the night before, almost forgot about the exam, got there at the last minute, and scored a 175, despite hangover.
So you sure try your darnedest, but there are no guarantees.
(3) As for recommendations et al:
Schools want recs from people who really know you and can say something substantive re: your skills, work, and character. Otherwise they'd be knee-deep in recs from VIP "titles" who don't know the applicant.
And paralegaling isn't an automatic plus, since the paralegal/lawyer skill-sets are quite different. The emphasis should be on analytical skills, broad grasp of legal blahblah, excellent writing skills, or some such thing -- not just paralegal tasks.
Again ... Try your darnedest, but be realistic, and have a Plan B.
Well the reason I'm studying at a law-firm is to learn better skills to become an attorney; legal research, legal writing; motions, draft, legalese et cetra not only administrative tasks anyone can learn.
I'm confident I can gain a high score on my lsats and the reason I made such a point is previously on this site I asked the same question about gaining entry into law school. Many law students made the point that the degree you chose was very important(i.e. my economics degree) and that your LSATS were the single most important factor to getting into law school and with a high enough of a lsat score, your gpa would be overshadowed. So hopefully the culmination of my factors will allow me entry into a great law school and if my gpa really becomes a concern, I can retake 5 or so classes and bump it up to a 3.5
Your degree is almost completely irrelevant to law school admissions. That said, some degrees better prepare one for specific types of practice (for instance, patent attorneys are generally required to have a technical degree), and some better prepare for law school in general, such as philosophy and to a lesser extent political science. You said you are going to major in economics to "stand out." Fact is, it won't matter. They're far more interested in your grades than the degree you received them in. My classmates have bachelors degrees in anything from physics to education to performing arts.
And in no case will your GPA be "overshadowed." It will still be weighed heavily in the admissions decision no matter what your LSAT score is. A really high LSAT score can substantially offset a mediocre GPA, but the fact is your GPA will be a limiting factor in your ability to get into a top school no matter what your LSAT score is.
Law School drop out here. I attended CUNY law school for two years. I think anders has a good post.
I had outstanding grades and recommendations, but from a low-tiered undergraduate school. I scored a 154 on the LSAT. (150 is average.) I applied to all the NYC law schools. I got in to New York Law School, CUNY, and was waitlisted at St. Johns. I was rejected by all the others, no big surprise.
My impression was that the LSAT is the single most important thing. After that, it is not just grades, but extra-curricular activities. The people who get into the very top tier schools have excellent grades and LSAT scores as a given. So what makes the applicants stand out is the kind of things they do with their free time, whether it is activism, honor societies, volunteer work, and so on: a record of service and achievement.
I would say this: If you really want to be a lawyer, don't get too hung up on school rankings. I realize that is difficult. Once you pass the bar and have a couple years of experience under your belt, nobody other than perhaps white-shoe corporate law firms, the Manhattan D.A., and maybe a few snobby public interest organizations (now isn't that counter-intuitive!) really care which school you went to. Being a lawyer is utterly different than being a law student.
I agree with Anders on the LSAT. It is an very unique test that is reliant on skills that in some cases cannot be learned to perfection. Unless you are very good at innately understanding abstract "game playing" and formal logic it is unwise to assume a score of 170. The LSAT is not a usual standardized test and a lot of very gifted and intelligent people take the LSAT, but fewer than 1 in 20 of those taking it end up getting in that range.
The real question is whether going to lawschool at all is a good idea. New York is an extremely competitive legal market and the legal industry is in the midst of a major restructuring that will afford fewer opportunities to law school graduates of any school, but especially of lower-ranked schools.
I would strongly suggest taking a look at the following:
Well the reason I'm studying at a law-firm is to learn better skills to become an attorney; legal research, legal writing; motions, draft, legalese et cetra not only administrative tasks anyone can learn.
I'm confident I can gain a high score on my lsats and the reason I made such a point is previously on this site I asked the same question about gaining entry into law school. Many law students made the point that the degree you chose was very important(i.e. my economics degree) and that your LSATS were the single most important factor to getting into law school and with a high enough of a lsat score, your gpa would be overshadowed. So hopefully the culmination of my factors will allow me entry into a great law school and if my gpa really becomes a concern, I can retake 5 or so classes and bump it up to a 3.5
well thanks!
Your degree is only a very marginal factor, unless you have a hard science or technical degree. Otherwise, it won't trump GPA, LSAT, or your Personal Statement. If two bubble candidates have similar applications, but one has an interesting degree and the other is an otherwise undistinguish poli sci major, it might tip it into their favor. Since this advantage is so slight (except for a technical degree), I would pick the major you enjoy and have a better chance of doing well.
As for being a paralegal, I really don't think it will give you an advantage. Paralegals applying to law school are a dime a dozen, so it doesn't distinguish you. Also, after your first year of law school, you will already be able to do better legal research and writing than probably 95% of the paralegals out there. So that experience, while helpful in deciding whether if you want to be an attorney, won't really give you a leg up as a lawyer or law student. My 1L section probably had about 5 former paralegals, only one ended up on law review.
As for retaking your classes, keep in mind that LSDAS won't include retakes in the GPA it reports to schools. So it won't be so easy to white wash your grades. I've been told the only effective way to white wash your grades is to let time pass and do great things in the interim.
As for recommendations, generally professor recommendations count more. The reason is that 75% of professor recommendations are really generic ones that they spit out from a template. When a personalized, well crafted and enthusiastic professor recommendation comes in, it really stands out. On the other hand, most employer recommendations are already personalized and enthusiastic, so it doesn't really distinguish you from the pack. That being said, an great employer recommendation is much better than a generic professor one.
Good luck. The only thing you can really control right now is concentrate on improving your grades and developing good relationships with your professors. That will benefit you for law school and any other career that you want to pursue. After your final grades and actual LSAT is in, then you can start the speculation game of where you have a reasonable shot of getting in.
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