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Proof of what? The obvious cognitive bias or that most state colleges are far removed from Berkeley? Sorta like providing proof that the sky is blue....
Proof that Berekely is roughly equivalent in cost to a private college. I'll just do it myself.
From the 2005 US News College Guide (the most recent one I have):
Berkely in state: $5754
USC: $30,512 (in/out of state)
Stanford: $29,847 "
Cal Tech: $25,551 "
Now you are going to have to get a lot of scholarship money to bring the cost down to Berkely's level. I don't know what your experience with college tuition is in the last few years, but most fin. aid is in the form of loans these days.
Proof that Berekely is roughly equivalent in cost to a private college. I'll just do it myself.
Why are you quoting the in-state tuition when I'm talking about out-of-state tuition?
By the way Berkeley's in-state tuition is soon going to be around $10k, in the UC system out of state students pay an additional $11k or so. So as I said, the out-of-state tuition is not likely to be much cheaper than a private school. In fact the private schools are often cheaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
I don't know what your experience with college tuition is in the last few years, but most fin. aid is in the form of loans these days.
Right....this is the problem you guys don't understand how private schools work. There is just a huge class divide here and I don't say this to be offensive, its just the reality. The top private schools have so much money that tuition is just a drop in the bucket, the scholarships, grants etc are not of the same nature as the sorts lower income kids are getting at state colleges.
Right....this is the problem you guys don't understand how private schools work. There is just a huge class divide here and I don't say this to be offensive, its just the reality. The top private schools have so much money that tuition is just a drop in the bucket, the scholarships, grants etc are not of the same nature as the sorts lower income kids are getting at state colleges.
I think you're really overestimating university endowments. Not like they're all just sitting around waiting to throw money at people.
I think you're really overestimating university endowments. Not like they're all just sitting around waiting to throw money at people.
Nope, the per student endowment at the top private schools is around 1 million, some are almost as much as 2 million. The annual return the university gets on its endowments can easily cover the tuition for every student. But its not just about their endowments, they get a lot of grants, etc.
These schools don't depend on tuition, as a result they can easily offer generous tuition scholarships to top talent. These schools have an incentive to attract the brightest kids and they will be happy to throw money at them.
Folks, this sums it up perfectly! The kid who can gain admission to Ivy League schools is the kid that will succeed wherever he or she goes.
In many cases, admission to an Ivy League school is directly proportional to the parents' willingness to write a sufficiently large check to the school's endowment fund.
In many cases, admission to an Ivy League school is directly proportional to the parents' willingness to write a sufficiently large check to the school's endowment fund.
Of sorts. Top schools admit students based on academic ability, but another thing they may consider is what type of alumni the student will become. If a student comes from a wealthy family or demonstrates generosity through volunteerism, there is a good chance that this student will become a donating alumni member after graduation.
And yes, it is all based on assumptions and generalizations and not all Ivy grads give money back to the schools.
The lower social classes tend to have rather inaccurate ideas about private schools and even feel threatened by the suggestion that they may provide one with a leg up on others.
Lower social classes? Please grow up. Those lowly public universities have a lot of wealthy alumni. I have a few friends that have attended Ivies. They have all said about the same thing, there are two classes of people that attend: the extremely brilliant and the extremely privileged. That may not be the right environment for some kids.
Most people posting here are not saying that a kid should pick the local state school over an Ivy education. It seems to me most are saying there are more things to consider than just the school ranking.
1. Financial considerations
2. the student's personality
3. the kid's desires (distance from home, size of school, size of city that the school is in...)
4. the kid's field of interest
5. the availability of excellent public schools in the area
It is a complicated decision with a lot of factors. It is better for a kid to succeed in a environment that fits them (public, private, Ivy...) rather than fail in an environment that doesn't. There are a lot of brilliant failures in this world.
If your son or daughter graduated from an elite High School on the top of his class, got a near perfect SAT score and has an impressive record or leadership in countless activities, wouldn't you insist that the go to one of the best colleges in the nation?
In every almost guaranteed admission State College, there are many of these top notch students. Are they wasting their time in such easy settings? Shouldn't they be attending an Ivy League College?
I was a national merit finalist from a middle-income family. So, no financial aid to go to ivy league and not poor enough or in a position for other scholarship. (I looked at MIT for a bit before I saw the price tag and they mentioned the lack of scholarships).
So, I went to the University of Illinois school of engineering, which is top 3 in the US and not easy to get into.
I didn't like engineering (I anticipated this) and changed majors. I now make a comfortable living along with many of my other co-workers that also attended lowly state schools. 2 or 3 of my co-workers are Ivy league grads, the main difference between us is the pile of student loan debt as I finished 4 years and came out with only about 15k in debt when adjusted to current college costs.
No offense but you sound like someone from the east coast where the school the kid gets into is a major bragging right and 150k in student debt is seen as low.
My sister did her undergrad at an even "easier" state college and finished medical school at Washington University in St. Louis.
Now, if you want to discuss why you might find a top student at one of the academically low-end state schools (SAT needed around the median score) the answer is probably full-ride scholarship for a poorer student that can't get a similar deal at one of the expensive schools and that they are probably in a field that college specializes in. ie) some "low end" schools have niche departments that are renowned.
P.S. Mentioning "elite" highschools definitely screams east coaster. Around here, the "elite" highschools are public.
In general, I think people pay too much for expensive private undergraduate degrees when they would be better off getting a lower cost undergraduate degree and saving the money for graduate school.
My son was a National Merit finalist. He had a choice between a state school, at which he qualified for a full ride--tuition, housing, fees, everything--and a prestigious private school that would have cost a lot. He chose the state school, largely because they had a bigger program in his field and graduated with all kinds of awards, including PBK. This year he graduated from Yale Drama School and is now a professor in technical theater. I think he made the right choices.
Yes, there will be some bias in that case too. But people that have attended top schools tend to have a better understanding of lower ranked schools than the opposite.
I very much doubt that this is the case. What would the basis for this understanding be?
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2 or 3 of my co-workers are Ivy league grads, the main difference between us is the pile of student loan debt as I finished 4 years and came out with only about 15k in debt when adjusted to current college costs.
