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I tend to oversimplify things, but here's my take: if the OP actually wanted a "stable, middle-class" job like he says, he would have one by now. Looking for jobs you're qualified for and want just isn't that damn hard.
That is the most naive comment I've ever heard, yet I understand it because I thought the same way when I was in college. I figured that I'd have a chemistry degree and extensive lab experience. I'd send my resume to a company that hires chemists and bingo I get job with around the median quoted salary that ACS and BLS says for even an inexperienced chemist and be perfectly happy. Seemed logical and insanely simple.
I had one heck of a rude awakening. Shooting off hundreds of resumes and getting not a single callback. Applying for jobs where I was a perfect fit even and nothing. Wondering if I'll even be able to survive. Finally, ending up with a temp job because that is my dream to have an unstable job with no benefits that barely pays the bills.
HR drones and Hiring managers are trained to find reasons to toss resumes in the trash. Most hiring managers hide their contact information like the colonel's secret recipe to try and force you to go through HR. Under the best of times 9 times out of 10 your resume ends up right in the trash. Right now it is closer to 99.9 percent of the time due to the large ratio of applicants to jobs right now. However, it especially bad in science with the huge glut of applicants compared to number of jobs. The last job I interviewed for that offered $17 an hour had a stack of resumes.
I've come to several conclusions.
1. The hiring system is very dysfunctional.
2. Employers have insanely unrealistic experience expectations. That is why they can write ads that say we want someone that ran a Waters HPLC model 1234.5 testing for compound XYZ on a Thursday for five years and hold firm to it. That or they are trying to get an H1-b and trying to show that no Americans are qualified.
3. There is a shortage of jobs for scientists, definitely not of scientists.
4. I do not think it is just the recession.
5. The field of chemistry is badly fragmented and over-specialized. An accountant can get an accounting job at many different types of companies. In Chemistry a paint company wants a special paint chemist with special training and experience, The oil company wants an oil chemist, The food company wants a certified food chemist, The ink company wants an Ink Chemist the glue company wants an experienced adhesives chemist etc... Going from one specialization to another is almost as difficult as a complete career change.
6. People who are not well connected can look for years and not find a decent job. This is unfortunate that American companies are deprived of the best talent because they don't happen to know someone at the company.
Last edited by MSchemist80; 04-14-2010 at 10:04 PM..
Yea, except you have to be a prison guard... seeing a trend here? ::shudder::
Agreed. I'd have a hard time dealing with those animals, and not want to shoot them. It would be pretty demoralizing or frightening to walk arround all day and be spat at, threatened, and insulted. My hats are off to corrections officers, I could never do it.
This kind of follows the 50k without a degree thread.
I have an MS degree in chemistry as my name suggests. I find that the kind of jobs that specifically utilize my degree [Lab jobs] often pay worse than if I never went to college at all [sub 40k]. I am not looking for six figures but I at least want a middle class salary and a career.
What kind of jobs are out there that hire people with a science degree but are not science based? I am considering going back to school for an MSA and becoming an accountant but consider that a last resort I would rather not have another 2 years of minimal income plus tuition. Any suggestion [other than sales I hate sales too and am not an aggressive person].
I didn't read the thread, past the 1st page, so this may have already been suggested. I have a Masters in accounting and started out in public (Big 4). I worked with several people who were not accounting majors. Public accounting firms and consulting firms (especially consulting firms - think Accenture, BCG etc) are certainly open to folks in other majors. If you stay with them a few years they'll pay for your MBA upfront or at least provide tuition reimbursement. The fact you're a chemistry major proves you're intelligent and capable of learning, and that's all they really demand as a baseline.
If you go that route you need to demonstrate an interest in business. It wouldn't hurt to take a summer/evening course or two in finance and accounting. Do leaf through some industry publications for free at the library and read online pubs like WSJ, Fortune, Crains/Chicago Business etc. You can also check out Marketplace podcasts (or listen on NPR). No need to be an expert, just somewhat informed.
I didn't read the thread, past the 1st page, so this may have already been suggested. I have a Masters in accounting and started out in public (Big 4). I worked with several people who were not accounting majors. Public accounting firms and consulting firms (especially consulting firms - think Accenture, BCG etc) are certainly open to folks in other majors. If you stay with them a few years they'll pay for your MBA upfront or at least provide tuition reimbursement. The fact you're a chemistry major proves you're intelligent and capable of learning, and that's all they really demand as a baseline.
Best of luck!
However If I wish to advance in the accounting profession would I need to go for a CPA? If so I think an MSA rather than MBA is the only way I could meet the course requirements.
Yes, you'd need your CPA by your 3rd year in public accounting. So, that'd be sufficient time to take the appropriate classes in the evenings. You'd need an MBA by your 4th or 5th year in consulting, which is when you reach the manager level. However, you would need either your CPA OR your MBA. You don't need both.
HR drones and Hiring managers are trained to find reasons to toss resumes in the trash.
This is gibberish, what would be the point to train folks involved with hiring to "find reasons to toss resumes"? The point of course is to try to efficiently screen out those applications that represent promising individuals while tossing out those that do not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80
However, it especially bad in science with the huge glut of applicants compared to number of jobs.
And how do you know there is a "huge glut of applicants"? You keep saying this yet have not a single piece of objective data that supports it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80
I've come to several conclusions
Your conclusions are all based on a rather silly view of business. Its amazing that you think businesses are so stupid about their hiring despite the fact that having top talent gives a company a big competitive edge over its competitors.
Things are not working out for you and instead of looking inward you have decided to blame everyone else. You will get nowhere with this approach.
This kind of follows the 50k without a degree thread.
I have an MS degree in chemistry as my name suggests. I find that the kind of jobs that specifically utilize my degree [Lab jobs] often pay worse than if I never went to college at all [sub 40k]. I am not looking for six figures but I at least want a middle class salary and a career.
What kind of jobs are out there that hire people with a science degree but are not science based? I am considering going back to school for an MSA and becoming an accountant but consider that a last resort I would rather not have another 2 years of minimal income plus tuition. Any suggestion [other than sales I hate sales too and am not an aggressive person].
A friend of mine was in a similar spot. Had a BS in biochem, got a job working at a lab. Absolutely hated it! She didn't make more than 40K a year, and said her work was mind numbing and she couldn't stand the people she worked for. She quit, went back to school, got a PhD in pharmaceutical research. She now makes well into six figures doing cancer research, and loves her job. So, for you it might be worth biting the bullet and going all the way.
Anyway, there's a few aviation jobs that don't require specific degrees, but I don't think they'd be an option for you. Pilot is one. Don't care what your degree is in. But of course you need your pilot certifications, which would be more schooling/training. Airport Operations is another. They want a degree, but don't care what it's in. Most just want some aviation job experience, which is pretty non-specific. Plus those positions are very stable (required by federal law). And those same people move up into management. Most of the managers of the airport I worked at didn't have degrees at all until they became managers, and then went back to school. Most were making near 6 figures or a little over.
Things are not working out for you and instead of looking inward you have decided to blame everyone else. You will get nowhere with this approach.
If it was just me I would try to look inwards. However my observations are I know over a dozen classmates and dozens more that I've worked with. I also know a lot of classmates that majored in nonscience subjectes. Practically all the people I know who are science graduates are doing very poorly financially and many have poor job satisfaction as well.
I compare that with the people who graduated with direct business oriented degrees like accounting and economics and they are doing infinately better than the science graduates I know. I'd call that a pattern in the data.
The only people I've ever heard talk positively about being a science graduate are the ACS and you. I'd call those outliers in the data. I really can't explain why I can't get any decent jobs in science nor why anyone else I know can't either. The only eplainations are 1. There is something wrong with all of us, 2. Such jobs are rare and have unbelievably heavy competition or 3. Companies have dysfuntional hiring systems. It's been 5 years and I can find no definate anwsers so I think it may be time to move on while I am still young.
A friend of mine was in a similar spot. Had a BS in biochem, got a job working at a lab. Absolutely hated it! She didn't make more than 40K a year, and said her work was mind numbing and she couldn't stand the people she worked for. She quit, went back to school, got a PhD in pharmaceutical research. She now makes well into six figures doing cancer research, and loves her job. So, for you it might be worth biting the bullet and going all the way.
I've definately ruled out the Ph. D route. I have many collegues that went that route. First off it takes 5 to 7 years to get one maybe 3 or 4 if you already have the MS. Then post-docing is expected. I had a collegue that vowed she would not but ended up doing it because she couldn't get a job. That is another several years earning 35k. Then from what I've heard job issues for Ph. D's are worse than for BS/MS chemists. The Ph. D. level positions won't try to lowball you with $17 an hour contract but there are fewer of them. A lot of Ph. D's have very serious problems finding a science job even to the point where they leave the field. I know a Ph. D who now sells real estate.
Also what I saw in academia as RM said was pretty disenchanting. There are some PI's that are good and supporting. There are a lot of others that are type A's who see grad students as cheap labor to do the grunt work. In the lab I did my MS at it was the later and over 2/3 of the students quit without the Ph. D because of it. That was why I didn't bother.
There are a lot of routes far more rewarding and much less risky than the Ph. D route. Accounting is what I am looking at. 2 years for an MSA and then CPA and your usually sitting pretty secure. For the same ammount of time as a Ph. D might as well do pharmacy school.
Last edited by MSchemist80; 04-15-2010 at 09:11 AM..
I know it is necessary to take risks sometimes but I feel I can't afford another career mistake. I want to have a family and star enjoying life soon.
So far I've had no concrete indications that that is a likely outcome of continuing in science. I'd really like to believe it. I don't even mind that many tasks in science are routine and somewhat mind-numbing. I also like working in a lab. I just don't like having to live such a pathetic lifestyle after working so hard for so many years.
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