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Well you certainly CAN have a good job with only a HS diploma but you will probably have to make the job yourself or know someone who can set you up somewhere. That happens all the time. They may not be professinal jobs but they are jobs all the same, and may people never go farther than that or even want to. Sometimes further education or certification comes much later, and that's ok.
I encouraged both of my kids to go to college but except for having the diploma as something to put on their resume I'm not sure how much good it will actually do for either of them. It may get their foot in the door somewhere, but that's it. And if you have a foot in someones door already it's not necessary.
People can do whatever they want. The majority of U.S. citizens do not have a degree.
And you actually admit that you will play by the rules even if they are corrupt? Wow. Do you have empathy or a conscience? I think you'd make a good attorney or CEO.
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Originally Posted by socstudent
This is all well and good and I'm sure full of semi-factual information, but the reality remains that if you don't have some sort of degree beyond high school then you won't be able to get a decent job. It is becoming difficult enough to do even with a Bachelor's degree. Is the solution then to just boycott the system? I don't think so. We all have to play by society's rules even if we realize they are corrupt and don't agree with them. If you want to boycott higher education then you'll probably be doing it from a bench with a cardboard sign asking for money.
A lot of the college students I knew were small-minded puppets willing to be used and exploited. They had no individuality outside of college. It's really pitiful, the state our college students are in.
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Originally Posted by John23
It's a really weird deal. I thought about going to a big university when I graduated highschool in 96. 17/18 year olds are thinking about acne, being socially accepted, being cool, not being socially awkward. Figuring out their life. The last thing you think about is being scammed by your teachers or school system.
"Aim high", "aim high". That's what I remember. Should I go $40 k in debt? $60 k in debt for a degree? Are all these people really going to get jobs? I went to a highschool of 2,200 people. Multiply that times all these schools over the country. Does this add up? Are there going to be enough jobs in 6 or 8 years for everyone?
And that was during full employment of the 90's. They ring you on mental health issues and anxiety.
Funny, I went to a community college 3 miles from my house and an inexpensive state school. I'm glad I wasnt carrying high debt during the 2000's.
People can do whatever they want. The majority of U.S. citizens do not have a degree.
And you actually admit that you will play by the rules even if they are corrupt? Wow. Do you have empathy or a conscience? I think you'd make a good attorney or CEO.
A lot of the college students I knew were small-minded puppets willing to be used and exploited. They had no individuality outside of college. It's really pitiful, the state our college students are in.
First point - Yes, of course I will still play by the rules even if they are corrupt because I recognize that some things are too big for me to take on individually. It would be nice if the system changed but it isn't going to make a difference if I choose not to go to college on "principle", the only thing that is going to happen is that I am going to make less money and have less opportunities.
Second point- I'm sure a lot of college students are that way, but it also depends where you go. I went to a top tier private school where none of the students were that way, they are all smart, motivated and outspoken individuals who let their voice be heard and didn't let anyone push them around. At a lot of big state schools you are just a number and I'm sure it's easy to fall into that mentality, but that's why students strive to go to a good school where that doesn't happen. It's also self-selective, individually motivated students end up at good schools and everyone else ends up in the pool you mentioned. That's life and it happens everywhere, both in school and the work force.
Oh please, you sound like a conspiracy theorist. If you want to take this seriously go ahead, but like someone else said, you're just making it sound like you're trying to compensate for your own lack of education and failings. Just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean it's evil and no one should.
And that meant more money to line the greedy old professors' pockets.
While tuition dollars ultimately go towards the school's bottom line, and yes, are also used to pay a professor's salary, the money you pay to attend class does not go directly into that 'greedy old professor's pocket.' This is particularly true because most college professors do not make that much money to begin with.
College is not a scam. Most colleges will sell the value of a degree, particularly a degree from their own college, but few actually need to shove that message in anybodies face. Kids, and their parents, are more than willing to do it for them.
In the late 80s, early 90s, some entrepreneur got the idea that he could charge $160 an hour counseling high school students on how to get into an Ivy. It worked and spawned countless imitators. It was the middle class who was buying into this service and it was all done without the aid of the universities. Then, of course, the College Board got involved and began to push SATs on high school students. Once again, this was done by a third-party.
All of this third-party college prep is what really pushed the idea that college was the next step in life, or needed, or prestigious. But go ahead and blame colleges or high school teachers.
As someone else pointed out: no one is forcing you to go to college. If you fall for the lies, for the scam, you have no-one to blame but yourself.
I know plenty of people who are living good lives without a college education. My dad dropped out of college and started his own business. No, he is not Gates or Jobs, but he managed to do ok nonetheless. My GFs mom dropped out of high school in 10th grade. She realized when her daughter was born she needed to do something, so she taught herself about computers and ended up working as a project manager for the state and for a Fortune 500 company, making six figures at both. Another friend of mine had some community college experience, but not much else. He invested $900 in used screen printing equipment and began his own business. Yeah, it took about 7 years to really get going, but he now drives a BMW, has a personal accountant and lawyer. Another friend went to a community college for welding. He graduated about 8 years ago, and know he runs his own business building ornamental metalwork for mucho money. The last job he did was billed at $100,000. I have a friend from high school who began working in a coffee shop in 10th grade. Three years out of high school he bought his first home. No college degree required. He became a roaster, then master roaster and makes serious bank.
The thing is that these people made sh*t happen. None of them sat around and felt sorry for themselves or believed that a piece of paper would bring in the life that they want. But that is the key, it they are successful because of their personality.
I also know some people who went to college who became successful through that route, too. A fair amount of them went through a four-year nursing program and are now making around $35 an hour (not to mention double and triple time for working Holidays), but I know of one guy who has a Masters in Ecology who works for a Washington DC think-tank and makes a serious six figure salary, not to mention traveling the globe at least once a month. I know another guy who received a B.A. in Urban Planning and makes a decent salary working for the city.
And yes, I also know plenty of people with and without college degrees who are not doing jack squat with themselves.
College is not a scam, but too many people are attending who otherwise should not.
I saw the puppet-like mentality in the huge tier one public university.
When I transferred out to a small university the atmosphere changed for the better. A lot more individuality and a lot less group-think and herd-mentality.
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Originally Posted by socstudent
Second point- I'm sure a lot of college students are that way, but it also depends where you go. I went to a top tier private school where none of the students were that way, they are all smart, motivated and outspoken individuals who let their voice be heard and didn't let anyone push them around. At a lot of big state schools you are just a number and I'm sure it's easy to fall into that mentality, but that's why students strive to go to a good school where that doesn't happen. It's also self-selective, individually motivated students end up at good schools and everyone else ends up in the pool you mentioned. That's life and it happens everywhere, both in school and the work force.
I'm not that person in the video. The person in that video has a degree from Duke. And I agree with some of his rantings. It takes an individual to think outside the box. A herd will never do that. lol
I have a master's degree. And I do think the video-blogger is discussing more of a cultural issue versus conspiracy. Thank you for your comments.
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Originally Posted by socstudent
Oh please, you sound like a conspiracy theorist. If you want to take this seriously go ahead, but like someone else said, you're just making it sound like you're trying to compensate for your own lack of education and failings. Just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean it's evil and no one should.
If that were true then the 50% drop out rate wouldn't be.
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Originally Posted by K-Luv
High school students often feel like they are forced to be there, and not all students get Cs or Ds or Fs because they are dumb or can't comprehend the material. Some 'poor' students in high school feel confined, or not challenged so they don't bother. Or they are just not interested in the material. This tends to go away in college. Most students generally want to be there and feel like the belong for the most part. They get to choose courses that interest them, and more often than not, they get to choose a schedule that suits them, too.
Why are people so beholden to this college worship? I think we're telling kids in k-12, "I pledge allegiance to my college lord that is going to shape my future." That's basically the new pledge of allegiance in this country. I pledge allegiance that I'm going to repay Sallie Mae.
Part of the problem in highschool, is you get so brainwashed, it's like going through a house of horrors. You hear at every turn, you're going to be a loser if you don't graduate. You're going to work at McDonalds forever. You have to "Aim high". "Reach your potential". Reaching for your potential at most schools is not welding.
Maybe the technical and welding schools should do more on campus promotion at highschools.
Excellent post. Some kids don't want to go to college and are happy with a high school diploma. We need to be educating these kids about their options. No, college isn't the only way to success. Kids should be educated about community college, vo-tech schools, welding schools, the military, Job Corps, or options for finding a decent job after high school. Kids may find they are happiest being an entrepreneur after high school. We don't educate kids about these options and we certainly need to start.
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