Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Colleges and Universities
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-22-2010, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,300,450 times
Reputation: 35920

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by debzkidz View Post



When I was in high school, the school I attended required that a student not only get invited into AP, but also that a teacher in a previous 'lower' level course write a letter of recommendation. I assumed that was standard practice, that students took these courses because they were at that level.


No, it is not the practice everywhere. In both of the high schools my sons attened anyone could sign up for AP courses. And I can tell you that pre AP and AP classes are not the same everywhere. We moved from one state to another while my kids were in high school. The first school they were in had very rigorous AP courses. They were actually taught the way a college course was taught. In second school the AP courses were much easier. They were just glorified high school courses. AP kids usually had to do a few extra assignmnets or something, or they might have to answer an essay question on a test that the other kids, the ones take the non AP level courses might not.

When my son started college he said he was happy he'd been at the first school for a couple of years, because it actully prepared him for college, while the other school didn't.
I think there is as much variety in quality of AP courses from school to school in the same district (mine has about 8 high schools) as there is in schools from state to state.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-22-2010, 11:46 PM
 
Location: Maryland's 6th District.
8,358 posts, read 25,167,751 times
Reputation: 6540
Quote:
Originally Posted by kodaka View Post
Rejecting AP courses is no more a scam on the part of colleges wanting to collect tuition money, than it is on the part of parents who want to claim their kid is a genius, or by high schools who want to claim accolades for their curriculum and teaching methods.
The thing is that it is not the rule for colleges to award college credits for AP courses. That is something that is up to the individual college, and some do it and don't. AP courses (as well as SATs) were invented by the College Board. The College Board is a (supposed) non-profit group that does not represent colleges themselves, yet, they pretty much have single-handedly established the college admissions criteria. When CB began AP courses, they didn't strike a deal with colleges saying that colleges would award credit. Some colleges saw the rigor in these courses and decided-on their own accord- to reward the (few) students who took them. There is no scam, and if there is, it is with the College Board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by debzkidz View Post

No, it is not the practice everywhere. In both of the high schools my sons attened anyone could sign up for AP courses. And I can tell you that pre AP and AP classes are not the same everywhere. We moved from one state to another while my kids were in high school. The first school they were in had very rigorous AP courses. They were actually taught the way a college course was taught. In second school the AP courses were much easier. They were just glorified high school courses. AP kids usually had to do a few extra assignmnets or something, or they might have to answer an essay question on a test that the other kids, the ones take the non AP level courses might not.
There was no 'pre AP' courses offered at my school, and looking on their website, I don't see any now. Students were free to enroll into Honors courses if they had a high enough GPA in the particular subject, or they were placed in Honors based on standardized test scores, but for an AP course the teacher- whether it was a regular high school level course or an Honors course- would write a letter of recommendation and submit it to the administration based on a particular students performance in that course, then that student would be invited to take the AP course(s).

AP courses are supposed to mimic the structure of a typical college course, giving the high school student a heads-up on what to expect in a college classroom. The funny thing is that the structure of a typical college course is typically up to the whim (and ego) of the individual professor teaching the course, and honestly, there is no standard (although many similarities). I've been in college classrooms that definitely felt like college, and others that made me feel as though I was attending an elementary school.

In that case, it would make sense that the rigor of AP courses would vary, too. The problem is that too many students are now taking AP courses because they want a leg up on competitive admissions, or they are hoping to gain college credit. Say what you will of them, but college officials are no dummies. Maybe such tactics worked in the 90s when such a scheme was relatively new on a wide-scale, but colleges know the tactics that high school students use to game them. I mean they deal with 10s of 1000s of applications a year. They've seen it all. Why would (or should) they reward students who are looking for an easy way in (or out)? As kodaka said, the real genius's graduate early, or they are offered a full ride before they graduate [high school].
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2010, 04:54 AM
 
20,793 posts, read 61,118,536 times
Reputation: 10691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
A high school AP class that is set up like an honors class yes. But is it really college level work then? Boulder High, referenced in the article, allows freshmen to take AP geography to fulfil the geography requirement of the school district. That is just one example. I can see a handful of kids in a large high school being ready for college level math by high school, as math is one of those courses that doesn't require tons of insight, just ability. I'm not overly impressed by someone being recruited by MIT, as I know a few people who have gone there. Smart, yes. Genius level, no.
Yes, they are still college level courses. Most of the kids are still juniors and seniors but by special permission some freshmen and sophomores are allowed to take the classes. Quite honestly, most college classes are not all that difficult either. The difficulty comes at the pace of the class, not so much in the material learned. I found my first year of college classes pretty much a review of what I had in high school and we didn't have AP classes, but then again, I went to a very good high school and on to a highly selective private college after that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2010, 09:30 AM
 
6,321 posts, read 10,267,438 times
Reputation: 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
Uh, 14 college credits for TWO high school classes?
Yes. A full year of high school = 2 college semesters. One was a lab science (4 credits each) so I got 4 for Physics I and 4 for Physics II. The other was Lit/Comp for 3 each. 4 + 4 + 3 + 3 = 14.

Quote:
When I was in high school, the school I attended required that a student not only get invited into AP, but also that a teacher in a previous 'lower' level course write a letter of recommendation. I assumed that was standard practice, that students took these courses because they were at that level.

However, after reading numerous posts here on CD, it seems as if many students are enrolling into AP courses (on their own volition, mind you, never mind actual ability) to game college admissions at the most or to get some college credits out of the way at the least. If this is the case, I wonder why any college would accept AP.
I'm not sure if you had to actually be invited at my school, but everyone in my AP classes was at that level. For example, my Physics class only had 7 people in it.

The thing about AP classes is that the goal of them is really just to get you to pass the AP test, but that's not always the best way to get the students to learn the material. I'd rather actually learn the material than be able to get a better score on a standardized test.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2010, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Maryland's 6th District.
8,358 posts, read 25,167,751 times
Reputation: 6540
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
Yes. A full year of high school = 2 college semesters. One was a lab science (4 credits each) so I got 4 for Physics I and 4 for Physics II. The other was Lit/Comp for 3 each. 4 + 4 + 3 + 3 = 14.
You said that you got 14 college credits for taking two high school classes. Then you post the above, which appears to be four classes taken over two semesters. If that is the case, then why did you respond 'yes' to my question of 14 credits awarded for two high school courses? I'm assuming that you meant 14 credits for two semesters worth of AP courses, but I am just looking for clarification.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2010, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Maryland's 6th District.
8,358 posts, read 25,167,751 times
Reputation: 6540
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
The thing about AP classes is that the goal of them is really just to get you to pass the AP test, but that's not always the best way to get the students to learn the material. I'd rather actually learn the material than be able to get a better score on a standardized test.
As I have stated previously, the purpose of AP courses is to prepare high school students for the rigors of a college classroom, but as another poster mentioned, the more students taking the AP tests, the better the school looks....and the more money College Board receives. I do not doubt your statement here, since the better a student's performance on the AP test(s), the better the school looks even more so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2010, 01:02 PM
 
4,796 posts, read 22,851,611 times
Reputation: 5046
Quote:
The thing is that it is not the rule for colleges to award college credits for AP courses. That is something that is up to the individual college, and some do it and don't. AP courses (as well as SATs) were invented by the College Board. The College Board is a (supposed) non-profit group that does not represent colleges themselves, yet, they pretty much have single-handedly established the college admissions criteria. When CB began AP courses, they didn't strike a deal with colleges saying that colleges would award credit. Some colleges saw the rigor in these courses and decided-on their own accord- to reward the (few) students who took them. There is no scam, and if there is, it is with the College Board.
I was merely rebutting an earlier comment that colleges were rejecting AP courses to 'scam' students out of more tuition money by making them retaking the class. I was pointing out, as you did later, that colleges are not the only one with a financial stake in the issue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2010, 01:38 PM
 
6,321 posts, read 10,267,438 times
Reputation: 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
You said that you got 14 college credits for taking two high school classes. Then you post the above, which appears to be four classes taken over two semesters. If that is the case, then why did you respond 'yes' to my question of 14 credits awarded for two high school courses? I'm assuming that you meant 14 credits for two semesters worth of AP courses, but I am just looking for clarification.
I took 2 AP courses in high school (well I took other ones too but only got the college credits for 2 of them). They were each for the whole year. But each of those classes gave me credit for 2 college semesters.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2010, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
1,654 posts, read 7,331,486 times
Reputation: 949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I agree. In the article I quoted, one student took his first AP class as a freshman. It is ridiculous to assume that a high school freshman can do college level work, so the course gets "dumbed down".

That's preposterous. Have you ever heard of Stuyvesant, Bronx School of Science,Whitney, Thomas Jefferson, Montgomery Blair, Wellesley, Walt Whitman, etc? At Thomas Jefferson, most of the kids in the school have algebra by at least the 6th or 7th grade, a good portion before that, and are taking calculus in the 9th and 10th grades.

The courses don't get dumbed down for younger students to take them, they get that way because a great number of parents think their kids are gifted when they're really not. Intelligence, or more appropriate, giftedness, knows no age limit.

And math doesn't require insight? That is also quite the loaded statement.

And to the idiot that said finance kids don't need foreign languages. Have you heard of international finance/trade?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Colleges and Universities
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top