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It says in the article that the median debt for a student attending a private college is $22,380, the average starting salary for someone coming out of college with a BA/BS is somewhere in the $35,000-40,000 range. When I was in college, attending a private school that I paid for myself-no help from my parents at all, I graduated with $16,800 in student loan debt, my starting salary was $16,500. I think the dept/income ratio TODAY is much better then it was 20+ years ago. Our oldest starts college in the fall and will graduate with about $30,000 in loans. That will be completely manageable--it really isn't any more then a car payment if you think about it.
Now, getting a teaching degree from Harvard and going $100,000 into debt to do that isn't very smart and doesn't give you a leg up on the competition.
Your situation was nearly identical to mine, from the student loan debt load to the starting salary amount. I never sweat it on my student loans. As you mention, I know people who have borrowed far more for a vehicle than I borrowed for four years of private education complete with three separate international study opportunities. At the advising of my parents, who did not/could not fund my education, I borrowed smart...my criteria for what school I would attend was that they had to offer me more in grants and scholarships than I'd have to borrow. Consequently, I ended up at a school that gave me three of four years for free, due to the amount of grant and scholarship money I was awarded.
I've always known I would work in the helping professions in some way, which, outside of administration roles (not interested, like the hands-on work) and health care (not my niche), are overall modestly paying. Therefore, I knew that paying sticker price for my degree wasn't an option, given future income projections. I don't work in a highly paying field (have worked in nonprofit family service, community journalism, and, currently, teaching), but it's still no problem whatsoever to make my student loan payments on a degree from a highly regarded college, because I was conscious to only accept a situation where I didn't have to borrow more than what was a reasonable amount against what I'd likely be able to earn, given my choices of fields. People knock private colleges for being too costly, but I was able to attend more inexpensively than any state school I looked at. State schools don't offer the kinds of grants and scholarships that privates do. It made all the difference in the world in terms of not having to start out in an insurmountably deep hole. I've also made the conscious choice to live in affordable cities, which are plentifully available to me due to my choice of work.
I think the overarching point isn't about what she majored in, but the fact that Private colleges generally aren't worth what they advertise. And that's a key point that should have been emphasized in the article. Unless NYU accepts you into a very selective, very prestigeous specialized program; then you are WASTING your time and money that could have easily been spent on local college that would have provided you with the VERY SAME career prospects. I know from experience in dealing with them.
Now, personally I make a pretty good living, and while I did have a great experience in grad and undergrad, it really does burn me up knowing that I could have graduated debt free from a local college and still would've gotten the same job. With what I pay now, I could have started saving to put money down on a brownstone.
What about in cases like mine, where the cost of private ed ends up undercutting the cost of public, due to greater availability of grants and scholarships (and, obviously, my eligibility for them)?
I don't think many people expect to have BMW and the nicest apartment, but they do expect to be able to afford a reasonable apartment, etc.
Having to live like a college student for an additional 5~10 years while you pay off your student loans is not appealing, many people in these situations may have been better off not going to college.
Also, wages have been almost stagnant for the last 10-years and they are actually declining now. The job market those 30ish and under have experienced is much different than the job market in the 80's and 90's. As a result this whole "do what we did" line is rather glib.
I doubt many of these people would have been better off not going to college at all. They might be working at Dairy Queen if they hadn't gone. I do agree that most graduates know better than to expect to drive a BMW and a loft on the "Gold Coast" of whatever city they live in. Some do overextend themselves b/c they don't really know how far their salary will go, with or without paying for student loans.
I would like to see some documentation that wages are actually delcining.
I also can't say that I've had to "live like a college student" in the years I've been repaying my student loan. It's really not a large monthly bill, no moreso than other regular expenses. It certainly hasn't reduced me to ramen and digging in the couch cushions for laundry quarters, at any rate.
I doubt many of these people would have been better off not going to college at all. They might be working at Dairy Queen if they hadn't gone.
If they are at all intelligent they would not be stuck at a job at Dairy Queen. This notion that if you don't go to college you'll be working in fast food is far from the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
I would like to see some documentation that wages are actually delcining.
Sure, real hourly earnings are declining due to the recession:
You have to look at real wages, not nominal wages. Boomers typically fail to note actual economic conditions when they dish out advice, there is just an underlying assumption that things today are the same as when they were in their 20's. I think this includes advice about degrees as well, they just don't have the same value as they did in the past. Not only do more people have them, but colleges (in general) have devalued the actual programs as well.
If they are at all intelligent they would not be stuck at a job at Dairy Queen. This notion that if you don't go to college you'll be working in fast food is far from the truth.
"Dairy Queen" was just a metaphor for low-paying job. How about day care center, window washing, grocery bagging, etc. I know HS grads doing all these things, here in Colorado where the economy is supposedly "better" than other places, and is certainly better than Cali's.
Quote:
Sure, real hourly earnings are declining due to the recession:
You have to look at real wages, not nominal wages. Boomers typically fail to note actual economic conditions when they dish out advice, there is just an underlying assumption that things today are the same as when they were in their 20's. I think this includes advice about degrees as well, they just don't have the same value as they did in the past. Not only do more people have them, but colleges (in general) have devalued the actual programs as well.
I am well aware, having two daughters in their 20s, that things are both the same and different than when I was in college.
"Dairy Queen" was just a metaphor for low-paying job.
Yes I realized you were using it in this sense and an intelligent adult would not be stuck with such a job. Perhaps, right out of high school that is all they would be able to get but it would not take long for an intelligent and motivated person to go beyond that.
The median income for adults working full-time with just a HS education is around $32k so obviously the vast majority of these folks are not stuck at low-paying jobs. Now its ~$18k higher if you have a bachelors, but that does not mean any random individual will make $18k more a year.
What about in cases like mine, where the cost of private ed ends up undercutting the cost of public, due to greater availability of grants and scholarships (and, obviously, my eligibility for them)?
True, it happens in quite a few cases; especially with LASs. I think generally privates are better than publics, my question is whether or not the cost difference is justified. Now places like NYU are notoriously stingy with scholarships and grants, especially with middle income average folks.
True, it happens in quite a few cases; especially with LASs. I think generally privates are better than publics, my question is whether or not the cost difference is justified. Now places like NYU are notoriously stingy with scholarships and grants, especially with middle income average folks.
Well, the very top schools (Ivies, top 10 LAS, Stanford, etc), almost all promise to meet 100% of the student's demonstrated need and they are pretty broad in what a student needs. In general, if a student's parents make $60K or less, it's free at these schools and the bulk of the aid from these schools are grants and scholarships, not loans. The only hitch is that it's very hard to get into these schools. Now the next (very small) step down are schools like NYU and USC and they don't offer nearly as much merit aid because they are usually the back-up for kids who don't get into the top school. They have a handful of wonderful merit scholarships to steal the top students who lose out in the admissions roulette at the level above, but for the students who are still good, but slightly less qualified (one B freshman year or whatever), there's not much help to be had.
Now, NYU has a reputation for not giving out aid- I am about the same age as the woman in the article and I grew up on the other side of the country and I still knew that, so I didn't apply. She must have known the financial situation going in- after all, they do give it to you with your acceptance packet. In her case, she was probably smart enough to get into a great public school but was too snobby to do so. She had options to graduate with less debt, but she let her vanity get in the way. With that sort of attitude, it's no wonder she's drowning in debt. She's insisting on living in trendy places and taking a low paid job. She could have gotten a drone job at a business for a few years (my BF's company hires NYU grads with all sorts of majors all the time), made a decent salary and live cheaply while paying down her loan. Instead, she chose to go an artsy route. She's still making bad decisions based on her image. There's just no helping some people.
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