Probable move from TX--so many questions! (Denver, Colorado Springs: appointed, transplants, real estate)

[blind spot]

Hello everyone,

I'm looking at most likely moving here within the next month or so, I am a network engineer and just received a job offer. I currently live in the DFW area of TX and before that I lived in Southern California and the Detroit area of MI so I have seen every weather pattern imaginable, except for a hurricane.

A bit about me:
I'm married with two dogs but no kids
I have a job secured already
I currently rent but would like to buy in the near future, I've been sorta priced out because my area exploded with population growth and so did the housing prices
I am very outdoorsy and love the hiking, being in nature, all that stuff...I practically lived outside in CA

I have been to Colorado Springs before on work trips for a previous employer for about a week each time, maybe 4-5 times, but not since 2014. My husband came with me on some of the trips and he loved it there too, so he's on board. My dogs don't get opinions :P

So my questions are:

-has it drastically changed since 2014? This area sure has and it's part of why I want to move, along with the insane, inferno temperatures
-do people hate transplants like I've read elsewhere? I promise I'm a nice person who doesn't want to change everything, I just miss being able to go hiking more than 3 months out of the year
-cost of living wise...I know it's gotten more expensive though not quite Denver levels, since kids aren't part of the picture, and I actually prefer smaller older houses (although here that means foundation work is needed) I'm kinda hopeful I might be able to afford to buy a house or even a condo, but that might be wishful thinking. I'm debating between renting for a year or so and then buying or getting a vacation rental for a few months while I look for a house to buy. Is it like socal levels of "you can get a shack in the ghetto for $400K" yet? I don't want to get sucked into the rental trap like I did here and then get priced out. I am ok with an older, smaller house, as long as it's safe enough for me to walk the dogs alone at night.
-I've also heard anything from it's super bible belty right wing, to partly full of hippies, to it's just a basic middle of the road town..I'm a middle of the road person, so as long as people are basically friendly and no one is extreme I should be okay I think.

I have done a lot of research right down to "can I access the same types of restaurants and grocery stores I do here" and "what kind of medical specialists are there" and "what kinds of veterinary specialists are there" combined with my past experiences working there but I'm a little concerned I'm holding onto an image from years ago and I'll show up and be totally shocked, lol. Any advice is appreciated.

[beezle1]

Maybe you could make a quick weekend trip here before you finalize your moving plans, just to make sure?

I don't think thinks have 'drastically' changed since 2014. Here are some things I have noticed over the last few years : Traffic on the interstate is heavier, LOTS of large 'luxury' apartment complexes being built, real estate prices higher, etc.

I think in every town people like to complain about transplants, and many of the complainers are transplants themselves.

Yes, probably a good idea to rent for a bit while you scope out which area you want to buy in. Once you have a few areas in mind, check back with this forum for input.

Good Luck!

[TCHP]

-Has it changed; Yes, some things have changed here over the past 4-5 years. Population has gone up about 10% since 2014. Real estate prices have gone up around 25% since then. IMO, we are also seeing these increases bring increasing number of quality of life items that are starting up or moving into Cos. There are even more things to do and places to do them in with greater variety. You may be surprised, but probably in a positive way.

-Do we hate transplants; In actuality, no, although we do like to tease some of them. TX and CA in particular are common targets, but, IMO, this has been the norm here all my life. In reality, 52% or more of our residents are from somewhere else, so odds are most of the people you will meet here are just like yourself, transplanted or highly mobile regular movers.

-Cost of living; Yes, housing has gone up. It is not near Denver levels yet, but is increasing. IIRC median price in Denver is over $400k, COS is around $350k. Groceries are near national levels. Utilities and gasoline are lower. Taxes are lower. Insurance and vehicle registrations will be higher. Depending on what era you mean by older housing, prices may be either really high or pretty reasonable. Old North End, Patty Jewett, Old Colo City, and Manitou tend to be pricey. Pleasant Valley, Kitty Hawk, Bott, Mesa Springs, and Wasson tend to be less expensive.

-Social structure; All of the above. When talking about conservative or liberal, there are three aspects of this that I tend to look at, social, political, and fiscal. Cos is, IMO, socially middle of the road to mildly liberal, politically conservative, and fiscally very conservative. The northern parts of the city tend to lean more conservative on more issues. The central and western parts of the city tend to lean more liberal. Generally speaking, there are not a lot of "up in your grill" types at either end. We do have the usual evangelical door to door types - Jehovahs, Mormons, etc. We also have a pretty active LGBTQ community and Pride Day. I'd say we have a range, but we do occasionally go on tangents.

Other points of consideration for you, 11% of Cos metro area is parks. So odds are you can be minutes from either a traditional grassy park with playgrounds to open space and wild land interface. Cos has more mixed race persons by percentage than Denver. Heck we have more by percentage than Chicago and Los Angeles. However, I would not call Cos a widely diverse area, as it is still 70% white. Military is often thrown out as a predominate social force here. They have some pretty significant financial influence, but are only around 7% of the total county population, which is over 700k, BTW.

[DrDog]

When you get here, get a Colorado drivers license, get Colorado plates, and stop saying y’all. No one will know you’re a transplant.

You can get a nice house for half the price of California.

[brucemc777]

I moved from Beverly Hills, MI, to Cedar Park, TX (NorthWest of Austin) for a year, then to CS in 2010. Last month I moved to Palm Bay, FL.


Housing is exploding. Apartments in NorthEast CS and houses on the east side.


Politically, there is a wide mix, but more conservative than most of CO.


Though a strong Christian foundation, I did not find it present in altering nor affecting every-day life. Perhaps the simple presence of Focus on the Family and Compassion International has someone's panties in a bunch.


No animosity to "transplants" whatsoever. Very used to a diverse background of people, along with a weirdly strong presence of tourists. For a while I worked relatively close to Garden of the Gods. One day driving home I chose to count how many other state's license plates I saw. Given my 15 minute drive home, I saw half of the US - 25 different states.


The marijuana laws did not appear to have any affect on the behavior of the population that I noticed, though I found it funny that a line of gas stations sprung up called "Gas & Grass".


Nature - The trails available to hike are fantastic! From simple "through the neighborhood" walkways that go for miles and cross through small open areas, to trails in the Gold Camp area (be careful on those dang dirt roads or it will be your last time there...) to the Blodget Peak trails next to The Academy.


Now, the problems, as I observed (after living in many cities and being somewhat involved with many governments, and this is sure to draw some fire...):


The government stinks. I suspect the mayor is trying to draw brownie points from the governor. Wile the police force is astoundingly understaffed for the job they have to perform AND relative to other cities of similar metrics (as confirmed in a conversation I had with a major CS city planner), last year's budget that the mayor submitted proposed no provisions to increase the force, only to finally bring the compensation up to normal levels. This was despite murder rates in 2017 being 150% of that in 2016 and at the time I left, at least holding steady if not rising from that. Car thefts and many other crimes were also up. Instead, the government was investing funds into creating "bicycle lanes" on major roadways - a big push that is highly supported by the governor and a very rich person who is known as the "bicycle czar" (google it) of Colorado. In support of this is a ridiculous "study" that was almost half paid for by a bicycle parts manufacturer and a liberal puppet organization. If you read the rag (report) in detail you will see that methodology is not laid out nor limits. It states, among many misleading items, that investing in the bicycle infrastructure will return something like $2.xx on every dollar invested - no limits and no conditions. The "report" isn't worth using as toilet paper, but it has been used to try to substantiate the most absurd moves, such as when the government eliminated a lane on a major East-West road and converted it to a bicycle lane. This drew so much fire that within several months they had to change it back. The initial conversion cost approximately $12,000 (of taxpayer money) and then they had to spend an untold amount to grind it all up, then they waited practically a year to pave the grinding while the rough road tore up tires. Further, the lack of police results in a significantly higher general crime rate and can be seen in people ignoring many traffic laws - running red lights and the such. When you drive around you will notice the extreme absence of police, both in neighborhoods and on the major highways.



As to the general crime rate, don't just take my ranting on it; go to LexisNexis® Community Crime Map and check out the area you are looking at. When I use this tool and look at where I live now, which is full of subdivisions, there is very little of note in a three mile radius for the last 6 months, other than the recovery of a stolen vehicle. Just try that with neighborhoods in CS and you will see the result of a government that does not give the police department what they need to protect the citizens, spending money in secondary and tertiary concerns instead as those are more visible and garner more votes.


The general voting public are rather apathetic apparently, as the laws are structured so that any tax hike must pass certain voting guidelines, but if they call that same hike a "fee" or "reallocation" instead, it does not need the same scrutiny. You will see ballot items that state something like "With out raising taxes or..." and re-allocate funds that voters approved for good purposes to other projects. The general public think that they are getting something for free. Then, instead of refunding the money to the public, which should be required, it goes to an area that does not have to have the same scrutiny. Something like this was recently done when millions of dollars were reallocated from CS's funds for road improvement to an idiotic claim to "jumpstart" the widening of I-25 from the Springs to Castle Rock. This meant that local folks were paying for it rather than the State of CO, which is where the money should have come from. This was a mayor supported issue. Anyway, just several months after this idiot thing got passed, it came out that the road commission was intending to make the new traffic lane a "toll lane". Once again, this is nothing by a TAX and it is on the local people who use it the most. And you can not tell me that the mayor of Colorado Springs knew nothing of the intent when he supported the reallocation of funds from City purposes, for which the voters first agreed, to State purposes. The population regularly are used as fools by the local government, which is rather unfortunate.


OK, I will get off my soap-box now. I strongly suggest renting for at least a year before buying as you will get to know the advantages and drawbacks of any particular area. In summation, the area is beautiful, the government stinks.

[TCHP]

I would disagree that COS politics are more conservative than the rest of the state. More conservative than the northern Front Range, yes, but the state, no. There are counties that are considerably more conservative in their voting record. COS has voted in Democratic representatives on occasion and had a Mayor who has switched parties.

But, are our politics an insiders mess with an apathetic voter base, yup. We have traditionally low turn outs and our fate is typically decided by only about 50% of the population. We have a large percentage of anti-tax crusaders that make life hell at times and their reach even extended to the state levels at one time, which has resulted int eh TABOR issues all of CO still lives with today.

FWIW, the Mayor has submitted next years budget with a $14 million increase for payroll improvements and hiring of police and fire. Hopefully it gets approved.

[orngkat]

As a Texas transplant who moved to the Springs two years ago, we were disappointed by the following changes we noted from previous visits:
Proliferation of vagrants/more crime than before
Minimal law enforcement
No city wide recycling efforts
Really reckless drivers
Pot shops
Noticeable lack of civic pride
But to us, it was one of the last best chances to return to the Front Range. I don't know Dallas real estate/property tax values but find it quite affordable here by comparison to Austin where we had lived. Our 1965 house was well under $300K and is centrally located.

[Sonic_Spork]

Originally Posted by orngkat

As a Texas transplant who moved to the Springs two years ago, we were disappointed by the following changes we noted from previous visits:
Proliferation of vagrants/more crime than before
Minimal law enforcement
No city wide recycling efforts
Really reckless drivers
Pot shops
Noticeable lack of civic pride
But to us, it was one of the last best chances to return to the Front Range. I don't know Dallas real estate/property tax values but find it quite affordable here by comparison to Austin where we had lived. Our 1965 house was well under $300K and is centrally located.

I do think we have more vagrants and crime than we did when I first moved here in 2011. I believe that after Colorado legalized pot, lots of shiftless people young and old came here with nothing but a passion for getting high and no better plan on how to afford to live.

Today I was turning out of Walmart up at the north end of Academy. There was a man holding a sign (they are everywhere.) Only this fellow had managed to squeeze what looked like his life story on that square of cardboard. I caught "Lost job girlfriend pregnant" before I glanced at the man himself as I made my turn. He was a young'un. Probably like 20 or so. Face full of piercings, and he was wearing some really fancy red Tripp pants, the kind they don't really sell anymore anywhere but the internet. Designer punk rock. I briefly thought, "I'll buy those pants off you for like $20 dude" but it was cold outside, so...that would not have been nice of me.

The recycling thing is a pet peeve of mine. I lived in Des Moines, Iowa, and then Lacey, Washington. Both places had mandatory recycling. You got a humongous bin for your mixed recyclables, and a much smaller one for garbage. If you overfilled your trash bin, and had to set out additional bags, you'd be charged for that. So they really incentivized recycling. And in Washington, you even got credit on your bill for the value of your recyclables! Here it's the opposite. They charge you more to recycle. Personally I think it's better to charge more to people who DON'T want to, to subsidize the efforts of those who DO, since at least in theory, it benefits us all. But I also heard we don't have the facilities to handle large scale mixed recycling. So I guess they'd have to do some capital improvements to accomplish that?

[DrDog]

I wouldn’t get too upset about recycling, since China doesn’t want our trash anymore, a lot of your recycling is headed towards landfills.

Totally agree with legalized pot directly increasing homelessness, crime, and a large number of people leaching off society. (I see this at work everyday).

[orngkat]

So odd but several of my neighbors who have lived here a long time say the same thing about China and recycling. I never heard that before. They just throw everything in the trash.