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Old 06-01-2020, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,913,828 times
Reputation: 3805

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Quote:
Originally Posted by amattaro View Post
Stunning that despite all the subjectively bad things associated with TABOR, people objectively continue to move here in large numbers.
People don't always make rational decisions when they want to move.
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Old 06-01-2020, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,959 posts, read 4,333,615 times
Reputation: 5267
...and given the chance to gut TABOR in the last election, the state collectively chose not to.
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Old 06-01-2020, 05:02 PM
 
26,116 posts, read 48,726,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP View Post
...and given the chance to gut TABOR in the last election, the state collectively chose not to.
And when a vaccine is made available for the coronavirus they'll butt up in line demanding their "rights" as "taxpayers" to get it --- of course for free. Their buffoon king, Doug Bruce, will be first in line. And they'll continue to whine about the nickel and dime charges the state resorts to in order to get around the lack of tax dollars. At least Denver has adults, smart enough to opt out of TABOR and honest enough to put their money where their mouth is about paying for the services they expect a good city to provide.
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Old 06-01-2020, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Berkeley Neighborhood, Denver, CO USA
17,670 posts, read 29,561,379 times
Reputation: 33195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
This idiotic attempt to rein in government by making any tax increase subject to voter approval resulted in pitiful infrastructure...
So true.
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Old 06-01-2020, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Berkeley Neighborhood, Denver, CO USA
17,670 posts, read 29,561,379 times
Reputation: 33195
Well, it is full of right-wing nut-jobs.
Except that they love their socialist government-owned electric company, water company, gas company, sewage company.

I was very happy to leave 39 years ago.
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Old 06-01-2020, 05:34 PM
 
26,116 posts, read 48,726,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post
Well, it is full of right-wing nut-jobs.
Except that they love their socialist government-owned electric company, water company, gas company, sewage company.

I was very happy to leave 39 years ago.
COLO SPGS Utilities was a true bright spot there, about 20% cheaper than cities with for-profit utility firms and their service was first rate.
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:45 PM
 
1,556 posts, read 2,383,011 times
Reputation: 2591
Those are all good reasons not to move here. If I had to do over, I would not have chose to retire in this particular city. One thing to add that really bothers me is the almost total lack of traffic enforcement. It makes driving here more dangerous than it needs to be.
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:43 PM
 
5,683 posts, read 4,091,245 times
Reputation: 7401
Quote:
Originally Posted by issaquahhiker View Post
[*]Dry air, dry climate, humidity so low my skin will bleed without prescription lotion. Brown desert, not much green, hard to grow anything, not many bodies of water[/list]
My wife and I both grew up in green places, and this bothers us. However, this is certainly a trade off. Many times, the lack of humidity is nice, and the lack of rain is often nice. I really think this is a "grass is greener" issue (literally). The no water thing sucks, though....as does the difficulty growing things. I hate landscaping here. I am not sure I ever thought about it before. Now, I think about it all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by issaquahhiker View Post
[*]Long winters (Nov-May), snow, cold. Summers bring drought, fire, hail, lightning (I like afternoon thunderstorms so I don't list that one)[/list]
"Long" is the right word. I don't consider the winter here to be that cold, but it's all a matter of perspective. I used to live in St. Louis, and I honestly think the winters here are better. In much of the midwest, even the lower portion of it, skies are mostly gray and temps are 10-35 all winter. COS gets days in the 50s pretty much every week, and it's sunny almost all of the time. March and April are usually my least favorite months here because I'm just ready for it to be over, but this year wasn't too bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by issaquahhiker View Post
[*]Incessant wind. And when combined with the bullet above and the fact that we lived in Mtn Shadows, I used to lay in bed at night and worry about fire rushing down the canyon and burning my house to the ground (which sadly happened, though after we moved). But still, I used to worry about this a lot and if we moved we would likely live in the foothills again and I would have this nagging worry[/list]
Yup, hate the wind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by issaquahhiker View Post
[*]Its a city now. Traffic, crazy drivers, does not have a well designed road system or well timed stoplights. Tourists. Lots of people on the trails, hard to find seclusion even in the back country. Traffic noise. Lots of retail spread out everywhere. Trash on the streets. The sprawl[/list]
Ehh, depends on perspective. This feels more like small cities like Asheville than bigger cities like Fort Worth, at least to me. I also don't consider COS to have real traffic. There are people on the trails, but I honestly don't understand when people say they can't get seclusion in the backcountry. This has not been my experience, but then again, I don't try to hike Grays and Torreys or Quandary via the standard routes on a Saturday in July. That's not the backcountry to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by issaquahhiker View Post
[*]Weed everywhere, homeless on the street corners, not a well-run city and citizens rebel against taxation (though this is a true statement of everywhere I have lived)[/list]
Regarding weed, I really don't understand this point. I occasionally smell it, but that's about it. To me, it's the single most overblown aspect of Colorado.


I would add the following:
  • The food scene sucks. I can never trust the opinions of "natives" on restaurants here because they grew up with bad restaurants. There are some pretty good places, but there's a ton of mediocrity to sort through. There are very, very few knock-your-socks-off places.
  • Lacks a lot of big city offerings. Want to go to a good art museum or science museum? Good luck. Most big cities have a lot of cool things. You stumble into restaurants or bars that were clearly well-designed and are just generally impressive. You might see cool art displays in a park, etc. There's just a lot of neat stuff in real cities that often doesn't exist here.
  • 90% of the houses are ugly. I'm not trying to insult anyone, so please realize this is just my opinion, but most of the architecture sucks. Most relatively new houses feature the same brown-ish EIFS fake stucco sprayed on with fake "architectural details" shaped into the stucco. Most older homes are just ugly. It's like the builders here (surely architects aren't responsible for this mess) are totally unfamiliar with basic concepts of good design. I can't tell you how many times I have seen things like second story windows being almost centered above the windows below, but off by a foot or two. Or there being literally five different sizes and shapes of windows on the front of a house. Don't even get me started on the windows on the sides or back. I get that different cities and regions have different architectural styles, but the "style" here is just ugly, and this problem exists at pretty much any price point.


No place is perfect, and for me, the negatives are far outweighed by mostly terrific weather, unbelievable access to nature, a downtown that is big enough to be cool but small enough to be convenient, and a lot of great people. Denver is close enough to make a trip up for dinner or a night out. COS is also very neighborhood-dependent, so if you don't like something about one part of town, there's probably a different part that is completely different.
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:50 PM
 
5,683 posts, read 4,091,245 times
Reputation: 7401
Quote:
Originally Posted by amattaro View Post
Stunning that despite all the subjectively bad things associated with TABOR, people objectively continue to move here in large numbers.
It's almost like single-variable analysis on something as complex as relocation decisions doesn't work.

There are no perfect places. The fact that people are moving to a place doesn't imply there is nothing bad about that place.

And your subjective/objective distinction makes no sense.

Or, perhaps you weren't actually being sarcastic, which is how I read your post. If so, sorry in advance.
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Old 06-02-2020, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,959 posts, read 4,333,615 times
Reputation: 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
And when a vaccine is made available for the coronavirus they'll butt up in line demanding their "rights" as "taxpayers" to get it --- of course for free. Their buffoon king, Doug Bruce, will be first in line. And they'll continue to whine about the nickel and dime charges the state resorts to in order to get around the lack of tax dollars. At least Denver has adults, smart enough to opt out of TABOR and honest enough to put their money where their mouth is about paying for the services they expect a good city to provide.
But here's the thing about the last election, it was a chance for the state to limit TABOR. I was hoping Denver and Boulder would throw enough weight behind the vote to push it over the top of repeal, but in the final count, they didn't. Denver has only opted to limit it within their city/county. I haven't looked closely at the results from that election, but I believe Douglas County is trying to give El Paso County a run for spiteful conservatism. While it originated in COS, TABOR is a statewide problem, but there are enough anti-government types out there that keep allowing it to stay in place every time an effort to limit or repeal it comes up.
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