08-09-2008, 12:35 PM
Location: Virginia
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Please look for more articles to come primarily in CDE's website and in the news.
Bottom line: In the past, high status schools have scored well and low status schools scored poorly or average, striving hard to score high/advanced. Now, students will be looked at to determine if they have a year's growth. At least 2 data points (CSAP scores from one year to another- tough to do on Fort Carson and other military installations bases/posts with a high turnover) must be included to determine how much a student has grown in a year.
The theory is that students who are in high socio-economic school districts come to school already average or performing high/advanced and remain average/high. This is to determine if students are growing academically or just plateauing.
Also, the state has FINALLY said we will identify gifted and talented early on. Studies show that if a student isn't identified and challenged by the 4th grade than frequently the student "averages" out.
Other educators, feel free to add or clear up what I have posted. I have only had to attend 2 short sessions on this in our district.
08-10-2008, 10:31 AM
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
froggin4colorado
Please look for more articles to come primarily in CDE's website and in the news.
Bottom line: In the past, high status schools have scored well and low status schools scored poorly or average, striving hard to score high/advanced. Now, students will be looked at to determine if they have a year's growth. At least 2 data points (CSAP scores from one year to another- tough to do on Fort Carson and other military installations bases/posts with a high turnover) must be included to determine how much a student has grown in a year.
The theory is that students who are in high socio-economic school districts come to school already average or performing high/advanced and remain average/high. This is to determine if students are growing academically or just plateauing.
Also, the state has FINALLY said we will identify gifted and talented early on. Studies show that if a student isn't identified and challenged by the 4th grade than frequently the student "averages" out.
Other educators, feel free to add or clear up what I have posted. I have only had to attend 2 short sessions on this in our district.
So there's an assumption of linear "growth?" A HS junior who progresses from 3rd grade to 4th grade reading level is viewed as more appropriate high school performance than a junior maintaining "plateaued" college level proficiency? Too funny.
The German schools separate out their students at about the 4th grade level..."gifted" to the college track, "capable" to the technical/vocational track, and "morons" to the craft vocational track. So you'll know if junior is headed for university or janitor school before he's 10 years old. So have we taken a first step in that direction?
08-20-2008, 05:56 PM
Location: Virginia
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The paper will be putting something in the paper in the next day or so.
When you look at these numbers, remember that it is percentile not percentage and anything above 50 is normal/good. The median, or 50th child's score is looked at.
Imagine a number line, the 50th person will be sitting at the number that you are looking at. You have no idea where the 49 above or below are at on the scale, just scattered about- but the 50th child is on the percentile number posted in the paper.
08-21-2008, 07:56 AM
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I lived in Germany for 9 years and personally, I think their system is great. However, it's not until the junior high school level that they begin testing and directing out to various schools. Not everyone is a brain surgeon, nor is everyone a landscaper. However, the aptitude tests given send these kids in the right direction and high school dropouts are practically nonexistent. The mass majority come out of some kind of school, whether it is higher education or a trade school, with the tools to make a living. In my opinion giving a young person, a trade in order to support themselves is much better than letting them fail or quit school and not be able to support themselves. Not everyone is cut out for school and the German's have figured that out and given their people an alternate way to be self-sufficient determined by the individual's capabilities.
08-21-2008, 08:41 AM
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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I thought schools always had to make "adequate yearly progress" (AYP). That's where the good schools have had a hard time; it is easy to make progress when a school is scoring quite low, harder when they are already near the top of the range. And they are rating schools, not students. If they have started to rate students based on CSAPs, it's news to me. (I am not being sarcastic, I mean I haven't heard of it.)
From what I have heard of Germany's system, the students are separated out at a pretty young age (around 10), which, IMO, is a bad idea. There is no allowance for "late bloomers" in such a system. Also, not all of the kids attend a traditional academic high school, which makes comparisons difficult.
08-21-2008, 09:29 AM
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I honestly mean no disrepect, but hearing about something and actually seeing it in action are 2 very different things. I've seen, first hand how well the German system works and the children are not "separated" out and certainly not at the age of 10.
08-21-2008, 09:32 AM
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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^^^I will take your eyewitness account. Even so, I don't like the idea of deciding in middle school that someone is not "college material". I like our system with all its flaws better.
08-21-2008, 11:21 AM
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It works for the German people because they have a different culture and way of thinking, as do most Europeans. Doesn't make them wrong, just different. As far as us adopting the system, I'm sure you're right, the system probably would not work here.
08-23-2008, 09:27 AM
Location: Virginia
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Kat,
Higher socio-economic schools have students who come into the school system knowing more, have more support at home, and more are labeled as gifted and talented. However, as many educators know, that often instruction is given to the class as an average, leaving the outliers who are way up there to hang (even if they aren't considered TAG/GT). These outliers will do well on the CSAP for a few years and then eventually end up scoring like the average student. So, in reality, they haven't been making the growth that they are capable of doing because the teacher taught to the class average and not individually. Therefore, students who start out performing high can often plateau out if thier needs aren't addressed. (The state has also FINALLY addressed gifted and talented programs in the schools, we must have them! This hasn't been the case. Additionally, those who work with this population must have the appropriate background, training, education, etc...)
On the other side of the spectrum, students who start out low, like Bob has mentioned above, we will be able to see how little or much growth has taken place. That low student might be 4 years behind at one point and then finally get an intense year of instruction (like he/she should) and make 3.5 years growth in one year, which is so awesome, but still score poorly on the CSAP. However, you will now see that the year has been a very successful one for him rather than seeing pure failure.
Now, D8 is looking individual growth like I discussed above (SLG), but the state is actually looking the entire grade as a whole and finding the middle person and seeing where those scores lie. We will have no idea where the highest person is or the lowest. So, this is not the average, only the median.
In the past, AYP looked at the entire class to see if they where proficient and then where graded on how many made proficient. But, what about the student who started out a kindergarten level in 3rd and missed proficient by 2 points or the gifted and talented student who only gained 20 points in one year? The districts who look at individual growth will now see this. The problem with the new system that CDE has laid out is that you only see the median, no one else.
Also, the public will read the paper and not realize that 50 percentile is average/good growth and instead will freak out when they see that number. Otherwise, 50 percentile can be seen as "WHAT?!!".
08-23-2008, 01:14 PM
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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I read an article about this new "system" in the Boulder Daily Camera yesterday, and I guess I should say, "mea culpa" to a certain extent. They are trying to compare individual students now, but the methodology is a little screwy, IMO.
I'm not so sold on the G & T business. I've had two kids go through K-12 and then to college. I've seen lots of kids misidentified as both G&T and non-G&T. As Garrison Keillor likes to say "all the kids are above average". Most of us parents feel that way.
Even in elementary school, most schools do some sort of ability grouping in reading early on and by 4th grade or so in math. In middle school, there are honors classes, and in high school AP, IB, college-level classes such as CU-Succeed. I've seen that it makes very little difference once they get to college what honors track they have been in.
The old system also had the flaw of just seeing the median. None of these school ratings say a thing about how an individual student will do in a particular school.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 08-23-2008 at 01:24 PM ..
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People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)